Meaningless Preseason Polling
by Bud Elliott on Aug 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT
in FSU Football
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PrintBecause I don't believe preseason polls should be done, I've decided to rank my preseason Blogpoll on something just as valid as any other preseason ranking system: strength of schedule. You might say "But Bud, to rank based on SOS you have to have some feel for how good the teams are." That is true, but I do not have to be held to my preconceived notions about teams as I won't be ranking this way the entire system. I could have just as easily ranked all teams wearing Green or Red as a primary color. This is our third-annual protest vote.
Once the season rolls around, we will rank the teams only on on-field play, a/k/a resume voting. Teams have not played any games so far, so we cannot rank in that fashion just yet.
TomahawkNation Ballot - Preseason [ranked on strength of schedule because teams have not yet played a game!]
| Rank | Team | Delta |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Auburn Tigers | -- |
| 2 | Tennessee Volunteers | -- |
| 3 | Florida Gators | -- |
| 4 | LSU Tigers | -- |
| 5 | Mississippi St. Bulldogs | -- |
| 6 | Arkansas Razorbacks | -- |
| 7 | Vanderbilt Commodores | -- |
| 8 | Mississippi Rebels | -- |
| 9 | Alabama Crimson Tide | -- |
| 10 | Clemson Tigers | -- |
| 11 | Texas A&M Aggies | -- |
| 12 | Boston College Eagles | -- |
| 13 | Iowa St. Cyclones | -- |
| 14 | South Carolina Gamecocks | -- |
| 15 | Kentucky Wildcats | -- |
| 16 | Texas Tech Red Raiders | -- |
| 17 | Colorado Buffaloes | -- |
| 18 | Oregon Ducks | -- |
| 19 | Penn St. Nittany Lions | -- |
| 20 | Miami Hurricanes | -- |
| 21 | Washington Huskies | -- |
| 22 | Missouri Tigers | -- |
| 23 | Arizona Wildcats | -- |
| 24 | ULM Warhawks | -- |
| 25 | Notre Dame Fighting Irish | -- |
SB Nation BlogPoll College Football Top 25 Rankings "
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We really need nest Saturday to get here
Bud is starting to lose it. I fully understand preseason polls being pointless. But this is just funny. Bud needed 10 more mins to kill till kickoff. And I needed 3 mins towards killing time till the game by reading this lol
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
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If you can't judge the teams, you can't judge strength of schedule.
Conversely, if you feel you can judge strength of schedule, then you have an idea of how good teams are and could have just taken a guess at a poll like a normal person.
by sonofagunn on Aug 28, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
But that would not highlight the silliness that is preseason polling, from which voters later vote to reinforce their preseason notions.
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So it's a protest vote! I think I understand.
I do the same thing every 4 years.
by sonofagunn on Aug 28, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much. I don’t like to promote preseason polling, but we are required to submit one to hold our spot in the blogpoll. Same thing happened last year or the year before.
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But how can you evaluate teams
based on strength of schedule, when the teams they will play have not played any games? Seems to me is that all you have done is rank all the teams secretly then rank them again (your poll) based on how they have to wade through your initial, unpublished, ranking.S If a preseason poll is worthless because of absence of resume, then one based on SOS is equally invalid IMO. What am I missing?
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
by fmnole on Aug 28, 2011 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If a protest were in order
why not rank them on stadium size or, better, membership of their marching band?
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
This from the intro to this article....
“I could have just as easily ranked all teams wearing Green or Red as a primary color.”
I prefer proximity of uniform colors to garnet & gold myself
Which explains how BC always gets my preseason #2 vote, and the fictional ESU is always in my top 5.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Aug 28, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
that’s equally as valid.
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ESU
With the spear…. oops I mean “wolf”
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by Aaron Tampa Nole on Aug 28, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t they make a TN rule because of this one year where if you deviate from the consensus by a certain amount then you don’t count? That was funny.
>>---l>
Yes, but the rule does not apply to the preseason. Rightfully so.
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Bud, you are so, so wrong.
Where did your annual #25 vote for Duke go?
…or was that not you? I’m confusing you with someone else?
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
Haha
Good ’ole Steve
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by freshcollegeboy on Aug 28, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, at least he was true to himself and his past. I have no issue with it.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
How is ANY preseason polling anything but dishonest?
I have always and forever thought that the ONLY purpose of preseason polling was to waste the time between the bowl season and September kickoffs. It does little else to benefit the rank and file of college football fans. Oh, so what if your team starts off preseason ranked number 4? You could still finish the regular season unranked with a 7-5 record.
Yeah, I’m talkin’ about your fall from grace, Gatas…
Polls are WORTHLESS until there is a valid body of work from which to evaluate.
So whats wrong with a former head coach voting for the team that gave him his start? Steve-O was reminding his former fan base that he still respects them… sort of. But more importantly, he was demonstrating exactly what the preseason polls stood for… Crap. His thing was that he would continue to vote for Duke until they lose a game. And you know what? In every week one poll, Duke would get zero votes after they eventually lost to (insert school name here). But Steve gave Duke their chance. And when EVERYONE in college football flaunts a 0-0 record, whats wrong with that?
I mean, its not like that vote actually counts for anything else at that point. At least… it shouldn’t.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
I think preseason polling would be pointless
were there no players, film, or fall practice to view. But instead we have all that; so it comes pretty naturally to begin to compare.
Now, is it unfortunate that starting lower can hinder your ability to finish ahead of someone who started higher? yes. But people are rarely bothered by NFL power-rankings that have zero influence on the end of the resulting season. In my opinion, preseason polling is fine, but the coaches poll should not be taken until the eighth week: the first week of the BCS poll. Because the only poll that really matters is the coaches poll.
˙uʍop ǝpısdn sı pʃɹoʍ ǝɥ⊥.
I think it should be based on
Out of conference SOS ranking….
Stop the SEC bias!
by burkenole on Aug 28, 2011 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
OOC SOS ranking is dumb. The SEC teams have to play those games. They count. There’s no SEC bias.
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by Bud Elliott on Aug 28, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The bias appears to be against the Dawgs
Notice that 11 of 12 SEC schools made it into the top 15 positions and Georgia was completely left off of the poll. I’m not vouching for the Dawgs having a tough season. But when they have to play EIGHT OF THE TEAMS that are listed in the top 15 and SIX OF THE TEAMS that are listed in the top 8, then shouldn’t they be included in the top 25 at a minimum?
They dodge Bama and LSU from the west.
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not to mention pigs
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 29, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I KNOW it is dumb!
That’s why it would be a more dramatic “protest” vote. Like you said, it could be based on the uniform color, and it would be just as arbitrary.
Your “arbitrary” preseason poll has the SEC teams all sayin’ “Right on” ha ha ha, Mine would have them all be out of the top 25 and crying foul over the JUST AS arbitrary preseason poll…
I guess I saw this poll as a tongue in cheek “protest”…not an attempt at an actual honest preseason poll. I wasn’t saying there is a bias in the reality of SEC SOS, just that your arbitrary poll provides them with unneeded pandering, while mine which would be JUST as arbitrary, useless, and irrelevant, would make the SEC teams less prevalent….
Unless you are suggesting that the SEC needs MORE props? The poor, poor, underestimated, disrespected, and overlooked SEC?
That’s faiir. What is the most ridiculous criteria we could use?
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by Bud Elliott on Aug 28, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
How about highest net income per out-of-conference away game played?
That would make North Texas, Wake and Duke all ranked. If that’s not absurd, I don’t know what is.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Aug 29, 2011 12:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
How about the Track And Feild rankings from High schools in Minnisota
with each school representing a football team. Think that would be great rankings for preseason polls
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love @caine115
Another idea...
Since stars DO matter… go with average starting line-up star ranking… then we’d know the top “talent” based on recruitment rankings…. Be sort of interesting to see….
Of course, that would screw up my anti-SEC agenda!
Oh, no no no no...
You have to go further than that. Compare the schools with the highest average “star” ranking over the last four years and divide by overall stadium capacity. That way, the best recruiting schools with the SMALLEST stadiums get the benefit. That would rule out many SEC schools for sure.
The softer, gentler, "I am at work" version of DutchFSU.
If it is truly worthless, she shouldn't waste valuable research time on it.
Go for alphabetical order and be done with it. If that doesn’t work for you, the exact ending order from the previous years AP poll…reversed.
The school with the highest number of players whose female relatives I have tried to mount...
Successfully or not. +10 spots in the rankings if I struck out.
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For the record, I see FSU’s schedule as 30thish
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Considering Bud's criteria for his poll results, this is the only time I can say this:
Thank God we’re not ranked.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
by Dogrel on Aug 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
looks like we will
upset the #24 team in the country next saturay then
I love it
And I really enjoy coming up with our TN weekly ballot during the season.
WAR PAINT OF TN
by Zach_Nole on Aug 28, 2011 3:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I know you are trying to prove a point,
but the point is meaningless. Preseason polls are fun, promote discussion and analysis, and create hype. Yes, they are often wrong, but the problem is the pollsters being unwilling to move teams after the season actually starts, not the concept of the preseason poll itself. So maybe, in the polls that actually count, there should be no preseason poll. But since that is not going to happen, the best thing you can do is show that you are willing to scrap your preseason ballot and vote based on actual performance after the season starts.
Now, if you are too lazy to create an actual ballot, just say so, because there’s nothing wrong with that.
by Ragnar Lodbrok on Aug 28, 2011 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The biggest problem with pre seaon polls is voters dont like to be wrong
Long story short. Team A, 2, and D, are ranked in that order. they dont play each other. And all end up with 11-2 records. Regardless of schedule if they all have same end of year record the voters will many time ignore how close games were, Scenario’s or competition and even if D. and 2. overall played better many writer will not change their original order since they had same record and don’t like to look wrong at end of season and it may even effect it
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love @caine115
I know this has been said a million times and you're probably sick of hearing it, but...
That doesn’t seem to be a problem with pre-season polls, it seems to be a problem with the voters. When voters don’t follow the intent of the poll, it screws everything up.
Kind of like voting for your top 25 based off strength of schedule :o)
by seminoleballer on Aug 30, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Thought on the Defense Comparison
I am hoping for a great game, (with OU on the winning end of course! ) but in looking at how long your guys have been running that defense, and a direct comparison to how long our guys have been running ours, I still give us the edge. I’m just saying that by direct comparison, your playing against comparable talent with MUCH MORE experience. Even our guys that haven’t played before, have been running this longer than your most experienced guys. Emotion is great if channeled correctly, but if not, mistakes are bound to happen. And if everyone on both sides are up for this game, like I’m sure they will be, experienced emotion will beat the inexperienced kind every time. ( I hope…)
This is in no way a prediction as to the outcome of this game, but thought I would bring up the thing that was most glaring to me in evaluating this game. Good Luck Noles!
I think you’re in the wrong thread!
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I like it.
I especially like that Alabama gets dinged a bit for not playing Alabama. Does the Spring game no longer count towards the preseason? BIAS!!!!
My Bad
I had been reading different threads for over an hour, had to create a sign in and posted in the wrong window. But enjoyed this thread as well. I agree polls don’t really mean anything till at least 5-6 games if not more have been played. OOC games really don’t give a person a solid base, as most teams play crappy teams OOC. But at the end of the day, I would go crazy if I didn’t have something to read about till season starts, even if that reading includes people bitching about the fact that the media gives them something to bitch about.
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