After Going Back and Watching the Game, I Feel Much Better Than I Did Yesterday
by patriotnole on Sep 25, 2011 3:42 PM EDT
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PrintFirst of all, the defense was not as bad as I originally thought. Bottom line Clemson has a good offense and they made some really good plays. If we eliminate critical penalties at crucial times, we win this game.The two biggest plays were Joyner's roughing the punter (take this one play out of the equation and we have a completely different ballgame) and the pass interference on Clemson's first drive of the second half.
Also, all of the players making plays for us in this game were freshmen....Tricket, Rashad Greene, Christian Green, Kenny Shaw and Nick O'Leary. Bottom line is we have great players in our freshman class and it looks like we are poised to add to that talent.
Now the bad news. Our running game sucks. Our coaches have to figure out how to establish some sort of balance to our offense. I was under the impression that we had the best offensive line coach and the best running back coach in the country. It's time Rick Tricket and Eddie Gram earn their paychecks.
After the game, I was starting to question whether the defense was as good as I originally thought; after watching the game I do still believe we have the potential to be a great defense. But, great defenses do not make mental mistakes at crucial times in a game. The countless penalties on 3rd down is unacceptable. In a week where our offense is playing a backup QB, is without several of our top receivers, has not established a running game all year and has issues at OL we needed our defense to go out and play mistake free. As a matter of fact, I contend that if we just eliminate one or two of the numerous mental mistakes we win the game.
I think we still have the ability to be a very good team. We need to get healthy over the bye week and work on our running game and fine tuning our defense (mostly from a mental standpoint). If we do this, we still have a good chance to win out.
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I agree 100%
All this “Our Defense sucks, thank God we didn’t play Wofford” is outright nonsense. You take away 3 or 4 of those penalties that gave Clemson 1st downs…and well…we win the game. Take away all the penalties on the defensive side of the ball (they converted what, 5 or 6 3rd and longs by penalties?) and you can take off a good third of Clemson’s offensive output and you also take away 2 or 3 TD’s as well.
There is a reason we held arguably the nations best quarterback to under 200 yds and held the nations (for now anyway) best offense to just over 20 points.
"Nick Cage..."
by RoyalOaksNole on Sep 25, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Joyner's first roughing penalty was flat out dumb
What the hell were they doing trying to block the punt anyways? Joyner is a hell of a ball player but he has a record of doing stupid things that draw penalties. In this case, it kept a key scoring drive for Clemson alive.
I don’t blame Rhodes for his PI in the first half. If he hadn’t done that, it would have been 6 for sure. Maybe we can blame him for getting beat, but not committing the penalty.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
they clearly saw a weakness in CU's blocking for punts
was the right move. Joyner couldn’t execute……twice
Joyner never touched the Kicker on the first penalty called....read the front page, it was an act by the CU kicker.
Lifes a SPEAR then U TRIBE!!!!!
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"FSU can't beat Oklahoma and the refs. I rarely harp this much on officiating, but they were truly brutal. Protectionism at its finest." BUD-ice
by mobaynole on Sep 26, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's the front page say?
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
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MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
I hadn't seen the front page yet.
Didn’t realize there was a quote about it. Do they still have running into the punter? Because that would’ve been the more appropriate call. If there isn’t a running into anymore, than I don’t see how you can call it “roughing”. Although, even the slightest of incidental facemasks are 15 yards now.
I did thoroughly enjoy the 2nd roughing the punter though. Dude got mashed.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Joyner was tripped or off balance and bumped the punter, and the punter flopped
FSU fans have their own tampon strings in a twirl about this. I say, “Don’t bump the punter and you won’t get called for the foul. And, if you do bump the punter, you should expect that some of the time you’ll get the call against you.” But, what do I know.
My point exactly
It is not like he didn’t know the rule. He knows that the punter is going to fall down if he touches him. Even CJF said on his show yesterday about the penalty, “If you don’t get through clean, you need to pull up.”
I don’t have a problem with his second penalty because that punt was blockable. He just missed the ball.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
Punt blocking is high risk/high reward
When the weakness is the exterior portion of the OLine … the blocker can position himself so that he goes in front of the foot. If the weakness is the interior of the line … the player has to make a judgment call – it will either be a huge block or a huge penalty. If we have the block on … the coaches have made an initial decision that the benefit is worth the risk.
Exactly ...
To be upset at the Clemson punter … or to suggest that he “deserved” to be injurued is plain asinine.
We would EXPECT our punter to do the same thing. Gano was OUTSTANDING in making sure that the officials were aware of when the defense got close or barely bumped him. Shoot, as has been mentioned before, wasn’t it his 100% acting job in a bowl game (Wisc?) that led to points?
I didn’t hear ANY FSU fans complaining that Gano deserved to be injured by those kind of tactics. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
all of our penalties were flat out dumb
and excessive. our team needs to show more discipline going forward if we want to win close games or games where we’re dogs.
Championship!
I've never seen a game...
…in which they took away 3 or 4 penalties, much less all the penalties levied against one side of the ball, and then awarded that team a win based on what probably would have happened had those penalties not occurred. That would be awesome though, if we could benefit from that one day. Who do I write?
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
Yes
Elite defenses do not consistently allow 3rd Down conversions, be it through the air, ground, or penalties.
by Nolesos Locos on Sep 26, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Consistently
This is 1 game.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Sep 26, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
One game
In which our team consistently made incredibly stupid mistakes. In the 4th game. In arguably the most important contest of the season.
Whether you believe Bud’s theory of how we got this way or not, the fact remains that large portions of this team do not play intelligently. I’m starting to think all of JF’s comments on the subject following practices aren’t just coach-speak.
by Nolesos Locos on Sep 27, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
2 of those were special teams errors
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by Bud Elliott on Sep 26, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS:
I was under the impression that we had the best offensive line coach and the best running back coach in the country. It’s time Rick Tricket and Eddie Gram earn their paychecks.
A Pessimist Complains About The Weather
An Optimist Waits For It To Change
A Realist Adjusts The Sails
Well, the good news is...
We shouldn’t have to worry about losing Jenkins or Rhodes early this year. And Stoops should still be with us next year for that 2012 run.
Hell,
The way Clint and our young WR’s played, we may have a couple years of running after that.
The road to fulfillment in any line of endeavor is always marked by an initial breakthrough; however, that first taste of success needs to be replicated again and again in order for supremacy to be sustained. We are Vikings, and our breakthrough is now. We will get that first down, then get a touchdown. Then we'll kick your ass.
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Sep 25, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait what?
We are 4 games in. Jenkins and Rhodes still have a lot of playing to do this season.
Defending the Spread
How many more spread teams do we play? Duke is probably the closest one, and they don’t scare me. Our D will bounce back, and I like our chances shutting down most everybody we play.
Unremarkable D-Line
Am I the only person that thought our defensive line, who were so dominant in the Oklahoma game, was especially unremarkable? Except for a pretty good showing during the 3rd quarter I saw almost no pressure getting to the Clemson QB. Do you think, perhaps, that he might not have made so many great throws or damaging plays on offense if he did not have so much time to sit in the pocket and just wait for Hopkins, Watkins, and Allen to get open? Given that much time it was almost inevitable that he would find one open receiver. Even with the penalties, which definitely crippled us, we were still executing on offense well enough to have won that game if we had been able to pressure Tahj Boyd at all.
It seemed that Clemson's pre-snap motion and ability to spread the ball to the perimeter slowed our rush in the first half at least.
I still think we need a stud DT to really fill out this D. A dominating tackle would have really freed up the ends.
That offense had us on our heels the whole game.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
His name is Timmy. He’ll be that in 2012.
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by Bud Elliott on Sep 26, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Timmy is already starting to look dominant - as a freshman!
That Mulzan (sp?) offense is designed, in part, to slow the pass rush. Especially from the ends. Werner was blocked a couple of times by a smaller player just because he had to respect the motion/fake.
Hand it to Klempsun, they have adopted that offensive scheme very quickly and Boyd looks like the perfect fit. Man, he threw some pretty passes.
I feel more like I do now, than I did before
gatornation - ungracious in victory, arrogant in defeat
by HaveNoleOption on Sep 27, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually think Stoops had Werner thinking too much this game.
Many of Clemson’s highlights involved Werner putting on the brakes and sitting tight… would have preferred risking getting burned in the flats or letting Boyd scramble for a few yards over letting Puj sit back there and find Watkins deep.
I believe the Oklahoma game beat us up. Badly.
Physically, Mentally, Emotionally and Psychologically The biggest game that FSU as a program had played in DECADES. It was certainly the biggest game anybody on that team had EVER played. Ever. It took it’s toll, for sure. Then to have to go into Death Valley and play a very good and talent laden Clemson squad that ALWAYS gets up for FSU.
Ya have to believe the “triple bye week” (Sorry, Duke and Wake Forest) will have a positive impact of getting reps with the younger guys against competition that isn’t really stout and resting our impact players to get them healthy in time for the Maryland game.
Clint Trickett=Ken Dorsey 2.0
Biggest game in DECADES?
Were we not in the title game January 2001?
That was a Decade ago.
Cmon. Why argue semantics? Geez Louise.
Clint Trickett=Ken Dorsey 2.0
The biggest game that FSU as a program had played in DECADES.
I hope to God that the players didn’t think Oklahoma was bigger than Clemson. OOC=never>conference foe.
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
by Nole Resurrected on Sep 26, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Game Day wasn't there for Clemson.
I’m pretty sure yall get what I was saying…“BIG” in terms of national attention and hoopla. Not in conference implications.
Clint Trickett=Ken Dorsey 2.0
I get it.
It was a huge game. People saying otherwise might just be trying to marginalize the loss.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
---------------------------------------------------------
Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
It was at least the 3rd, maybe 4th biggest game of this season.
ACCCG>Clemson>UF>OU
Editor of Run the Floor
If the players didn't understand that, then I lay it on the coaches
Editor of Run the Floor
by norcal_nole on Sep 27, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I've given up, norcal.
Don’t want to lose my TN friends over this. We’ve had two fantastic losses, and there’s just so much to be proud of right now. Moral victories are the building blocks of moral dynasties. We’re living one now. Don’t miss it.
This is the problem with moral victories, and I admit I participated in the first one. But honestly, I don’t know what the hell the script is right now. Well, I do, but it’s hard to even pretend to be excited about SEVEN STRAIGHT WINS followed by “a loss at UF that reasonable fans expected that doesn’t matter anyway because the wins over Atlantic foes BC and Maryland mean more in the long run.” Yeah, I think the group think here might be getting a little out of hand.
But anyway, this is a sincere olive branch, so I’ve decided the Clemson game is my second proudest moment as a Seminole fan, right behind that awesome Music City Bowl against Kentucky. “I NVR ben mor proud 2 B a Nolz FANNNN!!!” Me neither, bro. Perhaps it’s time I turn the other cheek and celebrate with you again. I mean, if an honest football fan can’t even make an observation about a team’s game prep and focus without being called a Bobby hater Jimbo hater, then why not give in? I learned a long time ago there’s nothing to be gained from debating that fan.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
You're just not a happy camper. No one has missed that.
I don’t think you see too many folks arguing with you that Clemson wasn’t important or that it was acceptable or that the coaches needed to do a better job getting them prepared or in the right mindset.
People are just speculating as to the reasons that they didn’t, or what obstacles they were not able to overcome.
The players were more excited for the biggest game, a top 5 matchup with a chance to knock off #1, in the most energizing environment in at least 10 years, at home in the Doak, featuring more press and punditry than anything they’ve ever been exposed to… as opposed to a game, on the road, in the afternoon, after they’ve been beaten up and depressed about losing. They aren’t professionals, they aren’t robots.. they’re kids, some teenagers, that haven’t grown up enough to rebound as quickly as we would have liked… and the coaches couldn’t come up with the right motivational concoction to overcome the obstacles.
In short, it was a letdown. A common phenomenon. I hate Clemson. I hate potentially losing the division in the first ACC game. I hope the coaches do a lot better next time digging themselves out of an emotional hole. It is what it is.
I guess I'd never thought of it that way.
Thanks, man.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
In all seriousness, I'd close the bar with anyone on TN.
Unfortunately, I’m teetotal now, but at least that gets you two rounds on TRM. Please don’t take anything personally when we’re playing on the internet.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
Sure. Internet Srs Bzns, and all that.
My feelings aren’t hurt. Just trying to move the dialogue on to looking towards the future more than lamenting the past.
(In interests of full disclosure, I had to look up teetotal to make sure my feelings weren’t hurt, and glad to report they’re still not.)
I get what you're writing, Chief03
OU was a HUGE game.
FSU was hosting the first #1 team to visit Doak since what? UF in 1996, maybe.
ESPN Game Day outside the stadium, ect…
No doubt it was a drain on our team emotionally and probably would’ve been the same even if we had won. I see this type of stuff across CFB every season. I believe they refer to it as a “trap” game. We struggle with Clemson in Death Valley every time (even with great teams ie…1999) and this year was no different.
I remember one year Peter Warrick needed 275 all-purpose yards for us to win.
Hard to get pressure when you're constantly being held and the holding is not being called.
by Tony Mustian on Sep 26, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO it wasn't as bad as in the OU game. Our DL (especially early on) was just dead-legged in this one - letdown disorder. Hard to get jacked to that level twice in a row.
And our DL was pretty jacked last week. It came through in their play.
Read your fanpost again but only the parts I've highlighted:
First of all, the defense was not as bad as I originally thought. Bottom line Clemson has a good offense and they made some really good plays. If we eliminate critical penalties at crucial times, we win this game.The two biggest plays were Joyner’s roughing the punter (take this one play out of the equation and we have a completely different ballgame) and the pass interference on Clemson’s first drive of the second half.
Also, all of the players making plays for us in this game were freshmen….Tricket, Rashad Greene, Christian Green, Kenny Shaw and Nick O’Leary. Bottom line is we have great players in our freshman class and it looks like we are poised to add to that talent.
Now the bad news. Our running game sucks. Our coaches have to figure out how to establish some sort of balance to our offense. I was under the impression that we had the best offensive line coach and the best running back coach in the country. It’s time Rick Tricket and Eddie Gram earn their paychecks.
After the game, I was starting to question whether the defense was as good as I originally thought; after watching the game I do still believe we have the potential to be a great defense. But, great defenses do not make mental mistakes at crucial times in a game. The countless penalties on 3rd down is unacceptable. In a week where our offense is playing a backup QB, is without several of our top receivers, has not established a running game all year and has issues at OL we needed our defense to go out and play mistake free. As a matter of fact, I contend that if we just eliminate one or two of the numerous mental mistakes we win the game….
I appreciate the effort, patriotnole, but when I read analysis like this, it occurs to me that some of you may need to make your expectations more reasonable by actually raising them.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
My expectatons are high
I expected to win both games, but if you have ever played before you know there are many factors in every game that determine whether or not you win. I was simply pointing out some of those factors (not excuses). These are things we have to improve if we want to be a championship team. Basically, if I were coaching this team, these are the factors I would point out to them.
Bottom line is we have to be mentally tough. We were not mentally tough enough in this game….some players were, but not as a complete unit.
I guess the bigger question is this:
How many of these problems are simply bad luck (injuries, penalties?, overachieving opponent) or are systemic?
I’m both frustrated and encouraged that our freshmen look as good as they do. While we certainly have some kids who are proving their worth a year removed from high school, we have juniors and seniors who have only known Jimbo’s system and yet, still cannot produce. It’s not always a matter of being a rare talent; can we not develop average guys? I can understand a few players just not “getting it.” But I have trouble believing that out of three running backs, not one can be above average. Coaches have to be held accountable, too. Even if they’re not Bobby Bowden.
So, when you provide a list like yours, one must ask if there is something bigger going on?
I did
“Now the bad news. Our running game sucks. Our coaches have to figure out how to establish some sort of balance to our offense. I was under the impression that we had the best offensive line coach and the best running back coach in the country. It’s time Rick Tricket and Eddie Gram earn their paychecks.”
by patriotnole on Sep 27, 2011 4:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we eliminate critical penalties at crucial times, we win this game.
That’s all that needs to be said…we gave Clemson like 30 extra plays on Offense because of penalties…
And still had an opportunity to win the game. We basically beat ourselves….
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And by "basically"
you mean we “did” beat ourselves. The whole thing is just extremely frustrating to me, and then Greg Reid goes off and starts yapping with the police…someone needs to chew some ass and show people the bench. We have enough depth, that if these dip——s are going to do this kind of stuff on and off the field, they need to talk to the bench until they realize every little thing matters.
I’m not selling, I think we’re still a very good football team, but when guys get hurt and you’re not getting any breaks from the refs, the best teams find ways to win and usually it’s by acting with poise and eliminating mistakes. I’m just dad gum frustrated.
by Matthew Juaire on Sep 26, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
oh..
we are basically assured to finish no worse than 9-3….gonna take Clemson losing twice to make the ACCCG…not sure that will happen unless they get Dabo’ed…
If they don’t manage to fall apart…we take a bowl game….win it and go 10-3 or 11-2(if we won the ACCCG)….then play in a bowl game with opportunity to go 12-2…wouldn’t be bad at all.
Follow Me On Twitter@KelvinHunt
Not ready to anoint this 9-3 thing until they can prove they can get more than 100 yards rushing on somebody, anybody.
We can out-athlete Wake, Duke and UVA, but it’s not likely that we go 5-1 or better against MD, NC State, BC, Miami, and UF unless the running game can at least become average enough for teams to at least honor play action.
Can also out athlete BC and NCST too
Miami has not looked good thus far, they get guys back but KState beat em up. UF is really my only worry game from here on and there’s a chance we get to watch Bama and LSU draw up the blueprint in October.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Sep 27, 2011 10:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Running Game = Balance....
I harped on this fact after the game. If we even had an average run game at this point, we beat Clemson. That run game would’ve probably prevented many of the costly penalties because our Defense probably wouldn’t have been on the field anyway. Plus that dynamic Clemson offense would’ve been on the sideline getting cold and probably would’ve messed up their rhythm because of them not getting on the field consistently. But since we didn’t have any run game, that allowed Clemson to run up “30” more plays on offense than we did. SMH..
I agree with many of the posters
It’s hard to say how our defense played when we gave them so many free 1st downs from penalties on 3rd and 4th down. Yes, our offense gave up those yard, so the yards should count against them. However, we compare our defense to other defenses, but those other defenses don’t give offenses 8 consecutive plays to make 10 yards.
Oklahoma falls to No. 2
Our Wire to Wire season is still intact as the only one ever!!!!
RWHUGHESJR
Annoyed Sports Radio Host: I'm looking for one brave Gators fan to call, just one. Oh so Gators fans talk trash all the time but when they play a game and lose nobody has the guts to call in?
Leonard: What are Gators?
Henry Desalvo: Football. College.
Confused Sports Radio Call In: I'm a Gators fan.
Annoyed Sports Radio Host: And what do you have to say?
Confused Sports Radio Call In: You said that Gators fans don't have the guts to call in.
Annoyed Sports Radio Host: Your point?
Confused Sports Radio Call In: My point is that I'm calling you now.
Leonard: [notices Snake and Eddie escorting Arthur wearing dark-colored pantyhose on their head] Is that him?
Henry Desalvo: I think we got Gator fans.
Don't think so
USC did it one year in the 00s, right?
USC did it in '04, and the AP didn't vacate its title.
FSU was first though – hooyah!
Anyone old enough to really remember Duke’s basketball wire-to-wire in ‘91-’92? Did it with two well-timed losses – pretty neat, even if it was Duke.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
we went wire to wire in all three major polls
"Kill a fly with an axe"
by SteadfastNole on Sep 27, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We rocked.
"It's one thing to grab an extra shampoo bottle off her cart, but I draw the line at actually raping hotel maids." - Norm MacDonald
I feel better, but my biggest issues right now are
[A] coping with our season getting derailed in a matter of weeks
2 realizing our D might not be the rock we could lean on
[D] coming down from the hope and excitement of a 10-win season to the reality that is my preseason prop. win-share expectation
[toothless] having to anxiously watch the effing clemson score every week now
Difference between this team and an elite one?
Alabama has 12 penalties as a team through 4 games. Oklahoma has 13 in 3. Florida State has 34 in 4, and the 10th most penalty yards against. Even if you subtract a few questionable ones, it’s still an obvious problem. You have to have a lot more talent than your opponents to get away with that (see: 90’s FSU vs. ACC) which doesn’t exist now.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
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