Is Florida State Safety Karlos Williams Switching To Offense?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 10:07 AM EST
in FSU Football
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PrintIs Florida State sophomore safety Karlos Williams moving to offense?
"As far as Parks’ replacement, the Seminoles look like they may be OK in that area. Safeties Nick Moody and Karlos Williams were listed at the position all season behind Parks. Battling through nagging injuries all year, Moody had relatively few chances to really alternate plays with Parks as he had been expected to do when the season began. Williams probably won’t be playing the position in the fall, after coach Jimbo Fisher has hinted about moving him to offense at the start of spring practice. The speedy freshman didn’t play a snap at safety this season, but was the Seminoles’ prolific, agile kick returner on special teams. As a result of the way Williams returned kicks, Fisher wants to see what he looks like running in space on offense." (Emphasis mine) -- Coley Harvey, Orlando Sentinel
Harvey is the first of the beat writers to officially put on paper what's been known for a while (and hinted at by me numerous times): there's a decent chance Karlos Williams will move to offense this spring. Don't think the timing here with the mention coming after Mario Pender has enrolled is coincidental, either. Karlos was not going to beat out Terrence Brooks (or Nick Moody for that matter, assuming Moody doesn't move to linebacker for depth purposes) at safety, as I said. In fact, I had always maintained that I liked him better on offense. I thought he could be a good safety because of his physical skills, but I never thought his reactions/instincts were that of a defensive star. And he never played much pass coverage in high school because his team was so poor, and all opponents needed to do was run on them. Of course, I could still be proven totally wrong on this. He could turn out to be a fantastic safety, but I doubt it.
Where will Williams play if he does move to offense? Harvey says running back. Harvey said "running in space", not running back. Apologies to Coley for my misread. I like him better at receiver. In any case, it doesn't matter all that much.
I think FSU sees it like this: he's not on pace to help the team at safety in 2012. He's the best athlete on the team. He has shown a special ability with the ball in his hands on kick returns the likes of which we've not seen since Vanover. He didn't wow anyone in practice with his play at safety, and didn't play any meaningful snaps there all season. If he gets an average of three offensive touches per game, that works out to ~40 opportunities on the year for a special athlete to change the game. And that's not including his kickoff returns.
If this works out, it could provide depth at the running back position. There's no guarantee that Chris Thompson ever takes another snap for Florida State after he literally broke his back against Wake Forest. And if the move indeed happens and Williams flourishes, well then you might see a different physical freak move from running back to linebacker.
Let's take a look at what Florida State's skill position players might look like if Williams does indeed move:
| Senior | Junior | Sophomore | Freshman |
| RB C. Thompson ! | FB C. Abram | RB D. Freeman | M. Pender |
| FB L. Pryor | WR J. Gehres* @ | RB J. Wilder, Jr. $ | E. Beverly* |
| FB D. Smiley* @ | WR J. Haggins | RB/WR K. Williams | K. Benjamin* |
| WR R. Smith | WR K. Shaw | WR C. Green* | M. Bracy |
| WR G. Dent | WR R. Greene | C. Kourtizidis | |
| WR W. Haulstead* | TE W. Tye* | R. Louis % | |
| *= Redshirt | TE N. O'Leary |
! = Not sure if Thompson ever takes another snap for FSU, if he redshirts to get stronger after breaking his back, or if he will be totally fine.
@ = Believe he has his degree and may be moving on.
# = Haulstead's status is still a bit uncertain as he has had two major concussions and has not faced contact in over a year.
$ = If Williams moves to offense and plays very well immediately, and Wilder doesn't improve, he could move to linebacker.
% = Not an FSU commitment, but many in the know believe the Auburn commitment will flip to Florida State on signing day. He may, however, end up on the defensive side of the ball.
That would be 23, though Louis is far from a lock and there is no guarantee that Smiley or Gehres are done. If Louis comes (and plays offense and not defensive back) and Smiley and Gehres are indeed done, that would be 21, which is a good number.
Another note: Look at how young most of FSU's skill talent is!
Inside, look at this awesome kick return by Williams. He has some serious physical ability.
The return is at the 12:20 mark.
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Bud, Jimbo is (finally) taking your advice and playing Karlos on O
LOL. I remember during his recruitment you always said you preferred him on O given his skill-set.
Championship!
Now is not the time for modesty.
Revel in brillance, fearless leader.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
by Nattylite on Jan 18, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Like you said, this is no surprise
Many of us have mentioned that Brooks with start next to joyner at S next year. I though Los was ahead of Moody though. I want him to play WR, but he are loaded at WR. He might be more important to us as an HB.
NolesRx
NoleTide!
I still like Los more at WR than RB
A hatch opened up and the aliens said, "We're sorry to learn that you soon will be dead, but though you may find this slightly macabre, we prefer your extinction to the loss of our job."
Williams ...
…. is a dead ringer for Vanover.
One wonders if CJF had Vanover, how would he be used. Surely some Harvin-esque possibilities here …..
But he is about 3 inches taller than Vanover
In function though, I agree. He is a threat on offense, whereever you put him. I think H-Back is a possibility too.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
6'2" is a pretty tall RB. I think I'd rather have him at receiver.
I can see him beat out Dent, maybe Haggins & Green if he gets the route running down.
Greene
Shaw
Green
Williams
Haggins
Dent
Bracy
Louis – maybe
Benjamin (although I’d like to see him add upper body weight and move to TE)
Essentially, he could take one of the top 4-5 WR spots if Willie never really comes back. I don’t see Gehres touching the ball with all of the other talent around him.
About the only reason why I’d want Los at RB is to send JWJ to LB. I think Los is a better fit at WR. So what does he work on? Route running or pass blocking?
Look at C Green's catch/targeted numbers from last season. They were horrible(38% success rate)
If Williams made the switch fulltime he would likely be gone, unless he really picked it up.
Also Dent would be gone, unless he learns his playbook better. Speaking of playbooks, I question whether Williams will able to learn it well enough to be compete for a starting position. The more I think about, the more this sounds like a deal where he gets in on 2 or 3 gadget plays a game, meaning he would still compete at safety.
Perspective
It was Green’s first yr. playing WR. He was QB in HS and medical RS his first year. Catches will come. Trust Dawsey to work his hands. It was said Green wasn’t close to being a contributor early in the season when discussing the injuries to Willie and Bert, but Green made some plays and surprised.
Based on the amount of development Green made in a short time, I don’t see any reason why Los couldn’t do the same. It depends upon what he’s asked to do. Reading the defense and pass blocking at RB will be more difficult than catching balls as a WR. Don’t see any reason why Los couldn’t run as many plays as Green did in his 1st year at receiver. Exclusively running go routes, reverse’s, and sweeps seems like a bare-bottom-minimum as opposed to what we could realistically expect if he is working O full time. I would expect him to have some trips packages if he’s playing WR and know enough to be used in 3 or 4 wide sets.
Wow, big news
But should be good news.
Would this affect any other recruiting situations in the defensive backfield, or just Louis?
On that return
tried to time it on my phone.
From catching the ball to scoring (~95 yds) in just over 10 seconds.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:20 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Considering he was a 10.55 100m guy, 10-11 seconds for a full return is feasible
He has track and football speed.
I just like-
How he wrecks people when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, his physicality will give the offense a different presence on the outside that we were missing with Haulstead out.
Don't worry, I'm just hairy-assing you.
In other news, Winston will be punting next year.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 10:21 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
hey, it got Charlie Ward on the field in '91 and opened the possibility of trick plays.
Dang… am I old or what?
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I remember when Ward backed up Kenny Felder and Felder bolted for the Brewers in the offseason. I was thinking, “damn, now we have that terrible punter as our QB!?!?”
Football is my favorite show.
I remember being pretty excited to see him play...
after watching him totally dismantle my HS.
by mountain renegade on Jan 18, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
wonder if Felder ever regretted that decision.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
remember the real fallout of that decision?
Danny Kanell had to burn his redshirt to be Charlie’s backup. Otherwise would have been a 5th year senior on that ’96 team that went undefeated but lost the mulligan bowl.
Then again, Randy Moss might have been on that team as well…
Same age as me my friend
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
can't be. He was prop 48, won the NC in '93.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
89 first year - JC 90- back on team 91-93
pretty sure -
go look at the stat archives for 89 punting
Link didn't work for me
but here’s what I think it would (should) say:
Charlie was Prop 48 out of HS, but instead of enrolling and burning a year of eligibility, he delayed enrollment, got qualified on his own (at JC) came in and punted as a true frosh (89), redshirted (90), became a hoops star (90-93), backed up Weldon and Johnson (91), starter (92), legend (93).
by bbnoles on Jan 18, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That video makes me so angry
Ugh, can’t watch it again. The shot of Karlos running back the KR though is beautiful (until the flag anyway) though. Seeing the spot where he turns and kicks it into a whole other gear is amazing. He does not look like a freshman in that video.
If our O-line ever loses its sieve-itis and gives EJ some confidence, our WR weapons are going to be SICK this year. Even if the O-line doesn’t heal itself, though, we could always bubble-screen the hell out of people with Bracy on one side and Karlos on the other and just burn people (take a page out of that school down the road’s book).
Dan Patrick: "Is Ponder a good name for a quarterback?"
Christian Ponder: "Why? Because you say I overthink things? is that what you’re trying to imply? As crazy as it sounds, my mom’s maiden name is actually SuperBowlWinner. Isn’t that crazy?"
DP: "Now is that hyphenated?"
CP7: "No, it’s all one word."
Did he play offense much in HS?
I like the thought of this as I would sit at the edge of my chair on kickoffs, hoping that that Karlos would get a shot at returning it…
I can only think of one time that he fumbled but I seemed to worry a little bit on his returns that he would have trouble holding onto the ball. Maybe with an offseason practicing with the O my concerns of him potentially fumbling will go down.
I also kinda like the idea of using him on some jet-sweeps…
OK, cool
Any extra experience is good. I just get a little nervous when someone that primarily plays/practices on defense starts running with the ball…
Imagine Karlos and JWJ in the backfield with EJ (not that it is going to happen). Talk about some freak athletes…
by bphillips11 on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
dont forget Devonte Freeman, he's no slouch.
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Or Pender. Yikes!
"If you want to see me, come watch me on Fridays. I play in pads."
-(Future FSU Star) Mario Pender
by SoCalNole on Jan 18, 2012 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I could definitely see Karlos running a little Wildcat.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:25 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Wildcat
yep—I like the idea of all of our O players fulfilling their assignment—getting a hat on a hat—then Karlos only needs to make one guy miss.
Championship!
As long as it doesn't look like that crap we ran against Clemson
I’m all for it.
Anytime we run the Wildcat I think you can expect it to look like it did against Clemson
Based on what Jimbo was trying to do when he ran it last time
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 19, 2012 9:49 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
No expert
but Jimbo said with a hat on a hat against Clemosn everything would have been fine. I do believe it’s a bit out of his comfort zone, but an efficient OL and a beast to catch the snap could cure that quickly.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
But hopefully not the "wildcat" we displayed vs. Clemson
That was one of the most horrible game plans i have ever seen using the wildcat.Jimbo had the right idea but his preparation and design was just awful. He didnt use a motion guy or any type of misdirection (fakes). I thought he could , at the least, use C.Green in there to add a little bit of a throwing threat. Good idea, just not well executed..IMHO!
Noles4Life!!
CT
He is not the guy you want running the wild cat…LOS is
by SarasotaSeminole on Jan 18, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
I could see him on Animal Planet
chasing down gazelles.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 24 recs
Always the one-upper
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:30 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Smoking what?
FSU back-2-back state champs!! 52-14
by CashvilleNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
HILLARIOUS
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
If this doesn't win Comment Of The Year....it is at least the Comment Of The Month.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
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ignorant question but can he throw at all?
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
by PalmAireNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
well played
Tebow=permanent wildcat
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ cain't throw a football?
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Haha. Yeah, curveball didn't really fit this situation.
I improvised, unsuccessfully.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
i thought it worked
I think that was just his way of saying
I GET THE REFERENCE!!!
I know thats what he was doing bc thats what I was doing above, but I think mine was better.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
I could see Karlos doing the following on O
1. catching a screen (or blocking for a another WR catching a screen)
2. running a vertical route
3. Reverse!
Championship!
wish Jimbo's O did more of this
it forces D players to make instant decisions; and if the D players are inexperienced (or just haven’t mastered their playbook), they can make the wrong decision. I remember a play against Clemson when their O was in the RZ and Morris put a guy (IIRC, TE) in motion, our LBs/Secondary didn’t cover him and left him wide open on a route to the endzone.
More motion, please!
Championship!
that, and it shows coverages
if you send the Hback or slot in motion, the man cover will move, while zone will shift. gives away a lot.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I kinda wish Einstein had paid more attention to the Unified Field Theory
instead of General Relativity. :-) Just a preference.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
probably more to do with complexitites
he continually has to simplify the playbook – adding a motion only makes it harder for the kids that didnt get the play at first to line up properly.
but yes, i would like to see more of it.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He used it a little more at LSU.
Not sure why he cut back on it at FSU. May be something to do with personnel.
Just a thought...
How bout Karlos playing a hybrid TE position like Arron Hernandez. They look to be about the same size…although I think Karlos would have to gain 10-15 lbs. He’d be a matchup problem where ever Jimbo lines him up.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
my thoughts exactly, i would be concerned about size but man, its good that he potentially play so many O positions
"What kind of addicting substance has Jimbo spiked the Tally water with?
It’s this new thing going around campus lately-I think it’s known by the term…"winning". I hear it’s really addictive and the real hardcore victory junkies can smell it from all the way across the nation."
by SmoothCrimiNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Patriots style
offense works well for NE. But to have a hybrid-type TE, you have to have a hybrid-type QB …maybe some semblance of an OL…
Anyway, the way he blows up people in special teams, and the size of his feet (ability to plant), he was made for defense…and an occasional KR (straight running)
by Buddy Reynolds on Jan 18, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking...
But to have a hybrid-type TE, you have to have a hybrid-type QB …maybe some semblance of an OL…
Not sure what you mean by hybrid-type QB, but I don’t think Brady is one…he’s just incredibly smart on reads both pre-snap and during the play. EJ needs to get better at this, I think he will.
As for the OL…just got to hope that playing all those young guys pays off next year.
Gripper
Tommyhawk Nation: Bobby Bowden is the all-time ACC leader in conference titles, conference wins, total wins, winning percentage, bowl appearances & wins and owns the longest conference winning streak.
Would rather see C. Greene in the wildcat
by az5950 on Jan 18, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Would rather
not see the Wildcat.
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Jan 18, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
seconded
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Would rather see Clint Trickett in the wildcat....
If by “wildcat”, you mean “on the bench, holding up towels.”
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
For as much as we talk about needing 1C runners I’m a little apprehensive about his transition.
>>---l>
Bingo. The Vanover comparison is a good one.
He too was big, fast and long strides. Not terribly shifty or quick.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why I said RB/WR doesn’t matter much. Think this is more about touches.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed re touches
don’t think Karlos is spectacular in space though; more-straight line situations, watch out.
Championship!
He might not make you miss but..
try tackling that beast 1 on 1 in space! I like him best a WR. Mainly because you can play 4-5 Wr’s at a time getting him on the field more and still use him like Harvin in the run game. To me the only reason to even consider him at HB is to get JWJ at LB. I’d rather just move Moody to LB. if doesn’t work out he can always move back to safety and back up Brooks.
by FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME! on Jan 18, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
would not want to have to tackle Los
on an end around with a full speed… we’ve already see this on KR
Championship!
Also on kick coverage...
He blows somebody up every kick.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Nope.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
Lets just hope
His off the field antics don’t mirror Vanover.
by seminolecpa on Jan 18, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
as long as dinner is ready
we’ll be fine
It's all about the process
by random_john on Jan 18, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hinted at using him on offense
Has suddenly turned into Los is playing RB. Let’s slow down a bit
It is odd that this came out only after Pender got enrolled...
I smell a coverup.
At least I have Chicken!
-Leeroy Jenkins
I wanted to just watch Los' kick return but...
I ended up watching the entire video of bad calls and got pissed. Thanks Bud, it’s going to be a long day at the office now for the intern.
If Satan had a son, it would be John Swofford.
by FSU5410 on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I sit near the 50 yard line
And remember that play and almost straining my neck as he blazed by. Special talent.
Follow @RobbedbyJT
I could see him at an H back
A hybrid RB/Rec similar to what was used at LSU. The guy Jimbo used there was more of a TE/FB, but I have seen offenses use the RB/WR combo to great use. it allows for a lot of matchup issues which Fisher seems to look for. Especially if you are going to run the option.
H back is where I saw him as well.
Jimbo had a few good ones at LSU but none that moved like this kid.
Matchup issues?
He’s a matchup issue regardless of where he lines up.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
What about the possibility of Karlos moving to linebacker?
Would his hips/coverage skills still be too much of a concern?
When we recruited him we promised him we wouldn't move him to LB
He’s so fast almost feel like the speed that would be lost by bulking him up would would be too much.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
The Bradham Call
Still makes me angry. And to know nothing was done to the refs about it…F’ing ACC. How many of you guys think that if we do play WV next year it will a WV, Clumpson, VT three game streak in terms of scheduling?
If we do play WV
Play all second/third string. Rest the starters. Tell the ACC we need to win the ACCCG and losing to WV will not count in conference Win Loss column,
by sc_fsu on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then they will turn around and fine us like they did the Ladies Soccer team. If you want to go that route you claim the starters all got food poisoning the night before.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
At 6'2", 220
sounds like a beast receiver to me. Just watching how he runs, looks like a young Justin Blackmon. Except I think Karlos is already faster and he is taller, and will probably be bigger after S&C program.
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 10:35 AM EST via Android app reply actions
I think the Blackmon comparison is spot on
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
yeeep
I was thinking the same thing…..WR ALL DAY …..he could take Haulsted’s spot if he’s unable to come back….of course if that’s if Karlos can contribute as a WR..
Follow Me On Twitter@KelvinHunt
by Kelvin Hunt on Jan 18, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
No offense, Blackmon is on a whole other level compared to Karlos, he maybe one of the most agile “big” receivers. Blackmon is only 6’1 but plays like he’s 6’4 and when the ball is in the air he knows how to adjust.
Karlos would have to learn a tremendous amount to even compare. That is why I am worried about moving him to receiver. There is a lot more to that position than RB or Athlete on offense.
do we really know?
we all seem to agree he’s a fabulous athlete—that has to include quickness, agility, coordination, balance, etc; more than just big and fast. If he’s just big and fast, he’s not a fabulous athlete.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
C. Green reminds me of Boldin.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 18, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Karlos would thrive in Jeffy's jump-ball offense.
Just let him run past his defender.
Are we deep enough at safety
to merit such a move?
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Jan 18, 2012 10:44 AM EST reply actions
I don't think so.
Moody is awful and Brooks had a few nice plays last season and I guess he’s already locked down the other safety spot.. oh well.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Let's not sell Brooks short here.
He saw lots of action beginning around the Clemson game. Played VERY well at safety, corner and nickel/slot. Kid is a stud.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Having Brooks and Joyner back there gives me a lot of confidence. Leaps and bounds over the safety tandems of recent years…
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 10:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, but who is behind them?
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
G. Reid (CB) X. Rhodes* (CB) N. Waisome (CB) L. Brutus (DB)* PJ Williams (DB)
L. Joyner (S) T. Hunter (DB) K. Smith (DB)*
T. Brooks (S)
G. Demps* (S)
J. Bright* (S)
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Oh good
Forgot about Bright. Now I can relax
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
by Nattylite on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He was recruited to reach out to Byrnes foil fake punts.
by NOLEinTX on Jan 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes Brooks did make a few plays this year more important is that he was in a lot more than that and you didn’t realize it. When you have your 3 or 4th safety and he can play a lot of meaningful snaps and yet you never heard announcers talking about him getting beat or exploited you have a good ball player. Not many teams have a 2nd year reserve that they can move all around the defensive backfield and not see an OC exploit that player when he is in the game.
I love Brooks as much as the next guy
But, lots of action is a gross exaggeration. He saw some action. Do we know how well he plays the run yet?
He did not see lots of action.
He saw some action. Or he saw action. Or he saw a little action.
any of those would be acceptable
After his play in the ND game,
I’m sure he saw a lot of action.
by mountain renegade on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Hold it just a moment. Just to be clear, let's further define. How's this?
No Action = 0% of total snaps.
Little Action = 0-9% of total snaps.
Saw Action = 10-17% of total snaps.
Some Action = 18-26% of total snaps.
Much Action = 26-43% of total snaps.
Most Action = 44-76% of total snaps.
All of the Action = 100% of total snaps.
So this will now be our Official TN definitions unless someone comes up with a better guide.
Carry on.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jan 18, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Action Jackson = 110% of total snaps.
Michael Jackson = 120% of child slaps.
…
Wait, what?
by MattDNole on Jan 18, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Yeah but it goes all the way to 76%. Largest margin or variance of all the actions. The numbers don't lie.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
Not saying he isn't.
Karlos was not going to beat out Terrence Brooks (or Nick Moody for that matter, assuming Moody doesn’t move to linebacker for depth purposes).
But seriously? Saying Karlos wont even make the 3 deep at safety already? Why don’t you look at the offensive positions he’s planning on moving to? He’ll be behind Pender AND Freeman, at WR he’ll be behing a handful of guys too. Not to mention, if he struggles picking up Stoops playbook, why will that not be a problem with Jimbo’s?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Reserves on offense make contributions. Backup safeties? Not as much.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Where will he contibute though?
A run or a catch here and there? He won’t make the 2 deep at any offensive position he moves to, simply because he knows jack squat about Jimbo’s playbook, and the talent we have at WR and RB.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
From the article
If he gets an average of three offensive touches per game, that works out to ~40 opportunities on the year for a special athlete to change the game. And that’s not including his kickoff returns.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
He'll be our 3rd best RB.
And like our 7th best reciever. I wouldn’t be so sure that he’ll get 3 touches a game.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Special packages, etc. That’s on the offensive staff to see that he does, right?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah it is.
But remember we are stacked at WR and I don’t see many running plays where the ball doesn’t touch Freeman or Pender’s hands.
Guess we’ll see, but I just think now we’ll have two studs wasting their time on offense.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Is anyone on offense the caliber of athlete that KW is?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think so.
But we do have some great athletes on offense, and not only are they studs, but they’ll have more coaching and more experience then Karlos will have.
IMO Brooks isn’t a better athlete then Karlos, but we see where that’s gotten him.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
There isn't a single person on offense that can do what Karlos can
You do whatever it takes to get someone like him touches in a game if he moves to offense. I mean did you see him destroy people that tried to tackle him on kickoffs? Good luck to anyone in the secondary that tries to take him on, they’ll end up w/ their face in the turf, a good amount of LB’s as well.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
Wilder can shrug tackles better
look how RB is working out for him…
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He wouldn't be strictly a RB
He could line up at WR or RB and get touches in a lot of ways to utilize his size, speed, strength, and athleticism.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
wilder doesn't have the speed
or instincts with the ball in his hands
Wait, what?
What can he do better than anyone else on O?
Physically abuse defenders
Nobody on offense has his combination of athleticisim, size, strength, or speed. Name me one person on offense that could run thru or around a defender when they have the ball in their hands like Karlos?
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
I am not good at all at evaluation talent.
So I will leave that to you guys. But if he would have been the best at that. Why did he just waste a year learning how to be a safety? Also, If he were the best at all of those things. Why are we talking about him being 4th-6th string WR?
I am also not good at all proof reading.
yes, I did that on purpose.
Why did he just waste a year learning how to be a safety?
Because he has the measurables to be a fantastic one and you don’t know how guys will develop—not just Los, but the others too. If you have a bunch of them that progress well and can’t get them all on the field at the same time, then you have to look at moving one.
Also, If he were the best at all of those things. Why are we talking about him being 4th-6th string WR?
Because it’s obvious that a freshman (or a guy playing his first year in the position) would never be the No. 1 receiver on the team. Seriously, there are precise patterns to be learned. How often does Jimbo complain about someone running a 3-yd route 5 yrds deep before making a cut? Timing with the QB, learning the full playbook, reading the defense to learn which option route to run, etc.? Greene was put in the mix b/c Willie, Bert, and Scooter were injured early. Turned out well, but not your typical circumstances to vault the freshman up the depth chart. If you project Los at #4 on the depth chart and we have injuries to #1-#3 at the same time, then conceivably, he could become No. 1. Just not likely under normal circumstances.
athlete, no
position player, yes. he isnt taking touches from Freeman or Pender, and Greene, Green, and Shaw are all getting touches before he does at WR (and they are all young).
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I'd say Wilder and Pender are close
Although Wilder is not a RB and needs to take that talent to the LB spot.
by moneyNOLE24 on Jan 18, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
No.
I could make the argument that he is the best athlete on the team. 6’2" 220 as a freshman. His route running can be worked on I’m sure. Yes there are better receivers on this team, but we rotate the 5 or 6 that we have anyway. Start the game with Greene, Shaw, and Smith. I would love to see the defense react when we sub in Christian Green, Bracy, and Williams. That is a whole lot of speed that the defense won’t be ready for.
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 12:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I actually think he may be our best deep threat immediately
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
i give that to Greene
his acceleration off the line is NFL elite, and he plays smart
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Jan 18, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No offense
but Karlos is bigger than Greene, just as fast, and would be much more imposing. He could get off the press much easier and could fight for position with anyone.
Not condoning the Jeffy offense, but jump balls are his forever.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Rodney already takes the jump balls
yes, he can beat the press, but Greene has him beat in form, which means he can do it more often. if Shaw had that kind of speed, he would be unstoppable – he beats his man right off the line every time.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He would instantly be our #2 big guy due to Haulstead.
Bottom line: 4th option WR/RB or on the bench as the #3 Safety?
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
#3 where?
he would be #2 behind Brooks, unless theres another, less talented kid that didnt play that i should know about.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He's behind Hunter currently
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I thought I remember him playing safety in garbage time
Karlos rarely saw the field
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe you did.
I know I saw him at corner as well.
I know we play our DB’s at both positions but I think Hunter becomes a corner.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
nah, Hunter is better at CB
at least thats what the coaches think. and i addressed the PT already – we knew he was raw, since his time at S in HS was pretty much “watch the run and hit somebody”, so i didnt expect much (if anything) this year, other than ST. dont know who did.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Where are you getting this stuff?!
;___;
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Jan 18, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Just from watching earlier in the year
would see both Brooks and Hunter come in and play safety before Karlos.
I assume if you go in before someone at the same position it means you are ahead of them on the depth chart.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I like our chances
with the defense’s 4th best option in space with LOS.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
but that rarely happens
are we running 4 and 5 wide next year, hoping for all nickel and dime? yes, he can do it, but not enough to justify the full time move – just dont see the touches being worth it.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
again, yes, that sounds great
but why move a guy from a shallow position to a deep one just to take advantage of a situation that may happen 10 snaps a game? just cross train him enough to get the few plays down. tell him his route in the huddle. athleticism will get him through it just fine.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
We have a lot of DBs on the team
Many can play safety.
Joyner doesn’t come off the field and Parks/Brooks was your best option last season which tells me that Brooks was was ballin’ out. Several of the DBs took shirts. We have a ton of guys competing for backup safety.
As far as number of snaps per game and opportunities to impact a game, Los will have more on O than competing for backup safety.
Rodney isn’t taking that many of the deep passes.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
who said anything about deep passes
i said Rodney takes the jump balls, and he does. 2 totally different concepts.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
One would hope that most jump balls were deep passes.
If not then we may need to try Los at QB
other way around
most deep balls are not jump balls. very different skill set to catch a jump ball or beat a man downfield on a go, post, flag, etc
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Well a jump ball has nothing to do with beating your man
but the only time jump balls are thrown are deep balls or redzone situations. Not many other situations where you want to see your QB throwing jump balls that I can think of off hand
wow, reading comprehension fail
very different skill set to catch a jump ball OR beat a man downfield on a go, post, flag, etc
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I wasn't disagreeing with you in the first part
the but is where our opinions start to differ. Perhaps I should have replaced the well with tue but I think it says the same thing.
Ok, well that makes it even less common, since we hardly ever throw jump balls to Rodney.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
we hardly ever throw them AT ALL
but when we do, it is typically to him
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I agree with this
Other than a few underthrown deep balls that turned into “jump balls”, it was very rare. The EZ corner routes (pseudo-jump balls) were more to Bert than anyone else.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I expect Moody to move to linebacker.
“nickmoody10
Yeah · 11 hours ago
heineken_henry
Damn bul you gone be mad when they · 10 hours ago
heineken_henry
Try to move u to linebacker · 10 hours ago
tpress39
That might be a good look bra LB · 9 hours ago
_madeincali
yaaasss Jesus!! linebacker raises hand to god. glory .. · 7 hours ago
nickmoody10
That’s what I’m gonna do ·"
And no, I don’t think he’ll start at linebacker.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If Moody moves to LB and Los moves to offense
Who’s left for the 2 deep at safety?
L. Joyner (S)
T. Brooks (S)
G. Demps* (S)
J. Bright* (S)
T. Hunter (DB)
L. Brutus (DB)*
K. Smith (DB)*
PJ Williams (DB)
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
i think so
yes to Joyner, Brooks, Hunter to CB, yes to Keelin, and PJ has been told he would play CB (after watching him, he is a S). cut the rest of them.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Cur Keelin and Brutus, who have been on campus for all of one year?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
said yes to Keelin, never much of a fan of Brutus (and he wasnt highly rated either)
Brutus committed early, IIRC, and i think he was a pickup after Luc and to get Keelin.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
my point exactly
i think they committed together, and we wanted Keelin, so we took them both. dont think he is Bright bad, but see him more like Demps with Reid – good idea at the time, now a waste of scholarship
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I didn't even know Demps was still on the team.
Bright is just taking up space.
Hunter is a CB (IMO)
The other 3 can’t be better than Karlos and they’re all FR.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
APR means FSU can’t cut everyone it would probably like to.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not suggesting we cut anyone.
Just pointing out that Karlos is a much better option then everyone you mentioned. It’s not even close IMO.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Any of the young guys could be. It’s not like Los has shown much at safety.
If he had shown any promise at safety, are the coaches even considering this move?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
COULD be..
So we push one of the best ATH on the team to the other side of the ball and all we have is guys that COULD be better options then him.
What about all the guys on offense that are HANDS DOWN better options then him?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
How many are HANDS DOWN better after spring?
WR and RB are the LEAST intellectual positions. Not saying that as a quip, but its the place where natural athletes can dominate.
I think Karlos will flourish.
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
as much as it pains me to say it
do we consider a RS? separate him a year from the young receivers, give him time to learn the offense… if it were to happen, this would be the year, considering our depth at WR.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
It's not a ridiculous idea
Especially considering our talent.
Very, very hard to swallow though. A kid like that not playing?
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No way KW would do that, and I think it would be a dumb move. As freshcollegeboy said, WR and RB are the easiest offensive positions to come in and play at.
People are getting mad about JWJ being wasted as an RB, but don’t feel the same way if KW wouldn’t play as 3rd string safety?
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
No, you do not RS him
You cannot keep a talent like that off the field.
The S position is solid, but we lack a true playmaker on Offense right now. Why not see what KW can do over there? The guy has amazed us on KO returns, so it makes sense to put him in a position where he gets the ball more in the game.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
lack a true playmaker?
did you watch Rashad Greene at all? every other role is filled with talent at WR. Freeman earned touches as a freshman because he is that good at RB, and Pender looks to be every bit the RB he is on film.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Unfortunately
they don’t play every down of every game
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
thats my point
leave him at S, at least for another year. if he cant hack it, then make the move, and give him packages at WR this year to get him acclimated and take advantage of the athleticism. but this cold turkey move just sounds like a bad idea.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Again, are they making the move if he had shown any promise at safety?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Do the coaches recruit him at safety
if he’s so clearly better at WR?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
They recruit him at what he wants to play I think.
That might not be his best position(JWJ), but once he realizes whats best he will likely be ok with switching.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
No.
The only reason we recruited Wilder at RB was so we could get him on the team. The rest of the country wanted him at LB.
Everyone recruited LOS as a safety, not one as a wideout.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I dont think LOS wouldve
committed to a team who said initially that their play was to use him at WR, hence all the offers at safety and zero at WR. If LOS said “I would like to get touches on offense at WR in college” everybody wouldve recruited him in that fashion to get him on the team imo.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Wilder said I want to be a RB
and everyone recruited him for LB. Los wanted to play safety, he got recruited at safety, and he should stay at safety.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
One thing that shouldnt be questioned
with our staff is their ability to evaluate talent and move it where it needs to be. Dont forget Joyner wanted to be a CB and look at him now.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Could've sworn
Joyner has said that safety is his natural position and where he wanted to play.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
actually, that backward
he wanted to play S, but his size dictates that his future in the NFL would be at CB. so we put him there. depth and talent issues forced him back to S, where he has always played and loves to lay the wood.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He was listed as the #1 CB in the country
by all the services right?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
yes, because that is where he projected
but watch the film, he has always been a S. size (and ability to play CB) is why he was listed at CB. think Toney Douglas, Ian Miller: they can play the 2, but their size dictates 1, and thats how they are projected at the next level. both sides saw it, and he would be there if not for the situation we have now.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I think Joyner's listing at CB
had much more to do with his coverage skills one on one with WRs than his size not being that of a safety.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
it was both
he played mostly safety, but showed in camps that he could play CB well – which was good, considering thats the best position for him in the NFL, given his height. the fact that he was the #1 CB was due to him showing he could cover, but being projected at CB was not because he played it…
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Um… there was no way in hell anyone could project him to add the weight he has. How he did that is anyone’s guess.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
huh?
by size, i meant height, not weight
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Coaches likely know better than you do.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
But they are moving him, so…
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
That’s not entirely true. For a while Karlos was listed as ana thlete.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
For those that don't know "ana thlete"
is Latin for ludicrous speed.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
plaid?
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
What happened next?
That says a lot actually. He was listed as an athlete but then coaching staffs across the country were recruiting him at safety..
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Or did he say he wanted to play safety?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Joyner was recruited by staff's across the country as CB.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Joyner WANTS to play safety, everyone recruits him as a corner.
Wilder WANTS to play running back, everyone recruits him as a linebacker.
So here are two examples of recent 5-star recruits who want to play one position but get recruited by everyone to play another. But I’m supposed to believe Karlos said “I’m a safety” and all the coaching staffs who might have thought he’s better at WR, said screw it and just recruited him at safety?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I would say our staff at this point
has a much better handle on where he belongs than the teams recruiting him when he was a high schooler. He has more experience doing things a college WR does than a college safety. He is almost completely green in coverage.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
but the only article that says he’ll be moving to the offensive side of the ball, says he’ll be a RB, not a WR.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
I dont take it as meaning a conventional back.
I like him more at WR too, but I could see him moved all around like new england uses Hernandez to try to create mismatches based on defensive personnel. We dont have another guy on the team that we can use in that way.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
actually not true. I misread coley’s initial piece.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think he could be used/moved around a lot
much like the pats use Hernandez?
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure. I think Los is more fast than quick.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
WD was recruited by everyone as a DB..
Real Football players can play multiple positions well
by FSUALLTHEDAMNTIME! on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
i think its an overreaction, to be honestq
give a raw kid 2 years before making that move. he showed out fine in the UA game at S.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Jan 18, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
especially after he had the ball in his hands
after the int. lol
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
that was funny
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Green has been good, when not injured
Freeman is solid, but not a playmaker
Pender has been on campus for all of 3 days!
We have seen what KW does when he has the ball and it needs to happen more.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
No, I think it would frustrate Los, lots of fans, and
I can’t see how much more polished he’d be… I mean the kid’s a freak talent. Gotta use that.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Karlos wont be the only one improving through spring.
I still say we have 2 RB’s and a handful of WR’s that will be better options then LOS when next season starts.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Yes, and he’s not taking their positions. If it happens, it will just be a few touches per game.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
If thats the case
why not keep him on D as well as giving him a nice little play package on O?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Because maybe he grows into that by 2013?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he does.
But then we’ll have a JR WR who is just now growing into the position.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
By his JR year
he would be a starting safety! Instead of MAYBE growing into a WR.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
We have some solid WRs
that will only have a better chance to succeed with an athlete like LOS that has to be accounted for by opposing defenses.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
He will improve much faster since he is starting at a lower level
But there is no doubt his ceiling is much higher
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
""--;;--ⒻⓁⓄⓇⒾⒹⒶ-ⓈⓉⒶⓉⒺ--;;-->
by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
You also have to factor
in that case that the other team’s 3rd or 4th best coverage guy could be matched up on LOS one on one if he’s truly worse than a handful of guys. He has ability that has to be accounted for imo, which will open things up for our best WRs like RG and RBs like Freeman.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Are they considering this move if Karlos is anywhere close to getting it at safety?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
You were before he even stepped on campus.
This may have just as much to do with his freak athleticism then it does his “getting it at safety”.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Simply put, no.
Are they considering this move if Karlos is anywhere close to getting it at safety?
Why is that so difficult for some of us to absorb?
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
Someone make this green.
This is a great point. In a year where we DID have some garbage time, and everyone that wasnt redshirting saw the field, he didn’t.
FWIW I’d prefer him to just learn to play safety…but we have to at least acknowledge the fact that this may not be an option if we need him the field.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bud, this is it right here.
I was thinking to myself “if only he had the instincts to play the pass..”
He’d be an all-world safety if he was a safety. He’s not that, though.
Let’s move him to O: I agree with you that he would project way better as a WR.
Perhaps some of the guys on here are frustrated because he’s not working out at the position that could very well give him the most PT, but nobody (who know’s what’s up) is crying about moving JWJ to LB and this is essentially the same sort of move. The only difference is, there’s already established depth at WR.
That said, I’m confident Los could shake it up and show he deserves the looks on O.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
the biggest difference between Los and JWJ is desire
Wilder has no desire to be a LB, and Los probably enjoys playing both sides of the ball. easier to move a guy that is willing to move than one who doesnt want to accept that he just isnt a RB and his future is at LB.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Think you're confusing Marcus Sims with JWJ.
Wilder will eventually see that he should be on the D.
Or.. At least he will see that he eventually wants to get paid, so he will play D.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
no confusion, thats exactly what happened with JWJ
wants to be his dad
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Except
A) Marcus Sims was Ernie’s little brother
2) JWJ can be better than his dad
D) the program is completely and totally different from the days of Marcus Sims (thank god) and I don’t think the coaches will let something like that happen, which is good for FSU’s and for JWJ’s sakes
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
better than his dad, just at a different position...
should have clarified
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
James Sr.
Was a pretty good rb, iirc…
by NoleySmokes on Jan 18, 2012 10:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
all that is irrelevant
if a kid doesnt want to play a position, no matter how good they tell him he is (and everyone did), he isnt going to play it well. the only hope we have is for him to realize it for himself. i dont think he is a better RB, but he would be average at best at LB unless his heart is in it – nobody puts in the extra hours if you hate your position, and that includes the gym and the playbook..
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I think he'll want to play LB
if not just for the virtue of more playing time after Pender gets some practices in.
I have a feeling that by the end of the spring, JWJ will be a LB.
If he’s not, and if the coaches haven’t done everything in their power to make the change happen then they’re doing every party involved a major disservice.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
i can only hope he sees it and commits to it
but nobody can do it for him. moving him despite his wishes means a transfer or half effort
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
JWJ is a first round talent at LB, Sims wasn’t. When that is explained to him while he is 3rd string, he’ll understand.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
by RollNole5 on Jan 18, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
you guys say that as though its news
we are all aware, and yet he hasnt moved yet. it will take time, and we are the only school that promised it to him.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
He hasn’t moved because he was promised a fair shake.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
yes, that is exactly what i said
your point?
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
You are making assuptions such as him hating his new position and that he won’t study the playbook. The $$ that goes to a first round pick will be plenty to inspire him.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
thats my point entirely
you cant make him move, he has to decide to do it. right now he hasnt decided to move to LB, so playing him there would get half effort. be it money, PT, success, or whatever, those are the things that would have to inspire him to move.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
This comes to mind here
Peter La Fleur: I know. I just said that.
White Goodman: I know you just said that.
Peter La Fleur: Okay, I’m not sure where you’re going with this.
White Goodman: Well, I’m not sure where you’re going with this.
Peter La Fleur: That’s what I said.
White Goodman: That’s what I’m saying to you.
Peter La Fleur: All right.
White Goodman: …Touché.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Mr. Preference, meet Mr. Bench.
An intro that can lead to a hallelujah moment.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
If those guys are performing better than Karlos in practice
then I assume they’re better options.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
That's 1 5 star player, 6 4 star and one 3 star
That’s not awful, dude
;___;
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Jan 18, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
where are you getting these, did you guess?
5, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4 on Rivals. maybe you got it backward with the 3s and 4s.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
If he switches to offense he might not be a 3-and-done guy.
even though its possible he might not be one at safety either.
F-L-O-R-I-D-A S-T-A-T-E FLORIDA STATE FLORIDA STATE FLORIDA STATE WOOOOOOOO!!!
KTBFFH!!
#JesusisLord
by Noleforever9399 on Jan 18, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions
he will never get enough touches on offense to go early, if at all
i hate the move, but i always did when it was considered.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Am I the only one worried about RB depth?
Seems like a couple key injuries and we’d be in trouble.
Also, worried about pass protect.
It's a legitimate worry.
We lose Freeman or he gets dinged up, and who is our breakaway threat? Here’s hoping Pender explodes in spring.
by PeachTreeNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Wilder to defense can not happen fast enough.
SPEAR or get SPEARED!!
by centralflnole on Jan 18, 2012 10:54 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What???
You got something against 3 yards and a cloud of dust? At leadt he doesnt fumble.
Last time ND and FSU got the top two QB recruits, they were named Ron Powlus and Thad Busby
by Ponder This on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I just really like the potential of someone running for 3 yards and he pounds them into a cloud of dust.
SPEAR or get SPEARED!!
by centralflnole on Jan 18, 2012 11:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ilike watching Wilder run the ball
But he lacks the vision. He missed several cuts this year and ended up mot gettign the yards he should have.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
Watching that video just made me angry again
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 10:55 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Interesting look at the skill position depth
but I’m concerned about depth at safety. How does that look right now? We have LJ and…no-one else who took any meaningful snaps, it seems to me. I guess Brooks took a couple, but that’s it, right?
Maybe it's a good thing people don't realize how much TB played.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t get it. We’ve praised the kid for a while.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but we're crazy as batshit.
Can’t blame em for not listening.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, I voted for you in that poll
I listen…most of the time. OK back to “work”
He did his job out there
Because of that teams didn’t throw at him much so he wasn’t the focal point on film. I charted a game or two and was surprised at his snap count. Just didn’t think he was on the field that much before digging into it.
by evenflow58 on Jan 18, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well even if TB played more than I remember
I’m 99% sure that our backups have close to 0 snaps.
I'm not trying to argue
Just asking for a look at safety depth to go along with the look at the skill positions, to see the full ramifications of the move, that’s all.
That’s true.
FSU has inexperienced backup safeties. And Los also has zero snaps.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Agree on Los having 0 snaps,
but I assume he saw the practice field a lot more than the others; maybe not, though.
Brooks and Hunter came in before him in many cases
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
""--;;--ⒻⓁⓄⓇⒾⒹⒶ-ⓈⓉⒶⓉⒺ--;;-->
by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Good point!
and who knows how many books about safety play he’s read?
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
I believe he played more than any non-starter in the secondary.
He was the one that was brought in when Joyner, Reid or Rhodes was hurt. He saw a good bit of time.
Not to mention, we played quite a bit of dime packages
and he was the dime back.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
first when Reid or Rhodes was hurt we would initially play less nickel
and of course Mike Harris would fill in. But, yes, he played more then guys who did not play at all
Incorrect. How many times do we have to tell you you’re wrong.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Brooks played more than you think
I do not have his snap count. The only non-starting DB that played more was ike Harris. Also, when Brooks was playing he was playing well in both phases (coverage and run support).
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
Please go rewatch the games from this season
Then count how many times #31 was on the field, you’ll be proven wrong pretty quickly.
Non Mollare, non mai mollare!
ItaliaNole A.K.A. SavvysNole
and who else?
we have no 2 deep now. Keelin Smith moves to S (where he should be)? not terrible fond of Brutus. does PJ come in at S and play immediately?
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
L. Joyner (S)
T. Brooks (S)
G. Demps* (S)
J. Bright* (S)
T. Hunter (DB)
L. Brutus (DB)*
K. Smith (DB)*
PJ Williams (DB)
Stoops and Co. Love PJ fwiw
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
ill just drop this one here
yes to Joyner, Brooks, Hunter to CB, yes to Keelin, and PJ has been told he would play CB (after watching him, he is a S). cut the rest of them.
i love PJ too, but he isnt better than Los, especially as a true freshman next year. would rather see Los on defense, even if it means LB, because our depth at S is awful (again) and he wont get enough touches at WR or be good enough to get touches at RB. this move = wasted talent.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Completely disagree. Think him sitting on the bench is wasting his talent. Have to let him affect the game somehow.
And how is this depth awful? You’re writing off Smith and Brutus after one red-shirt year? Really?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
yes to Keelin
like Keelin at S, but he hasnt even seen the field yet, which is less experience than ST. with the depth we have, Los wouldnt sit the bench, and i think playing him opposite Brooks (a CB, so he has to have the hips to play FS) is a great combo in 2013.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
You assume he can pick up the position. Which might not be a good assumption.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
i saw enough to think he can
we knew he was raw, so it wasnt a surprise not to see him play there yet (although i could have sworn i saw him play a few downs). Joyner would be fantastic on offense in a few touches, but think of the wasted talent on D. same with Reid. i think we are wasting Wilder’s talent at RB, but you cant make him move if he wants to be like his dad and hope for the same effort level.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Last time I heard this:
ill just drop this one here
the result was an upper-decker.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd for UD ref...
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
Get Los to 240, move him to H-back
Stand back, say “watch this!”
What are you glorifying with your life?
i think thats a horrible waste of his talent
not nearly enough touches for an athlete like that
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
And if he sits the bench again on defense?
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
What if we change to a flexbone/wishbone offense?
Get him, Wilder, & Freeman on the field all at once.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
oh god, Paul Johnson took over Corn's account
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Jan 18, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or so he says...
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Good fit at Tech.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
He's obviously stuck in the past.
Look at that O.
Look at that haircut!
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
One of the smartest guys you’ll meet though. Is to the ground game what Leach is to the passing game.
No doubt, I actually like the handful of coaches that never played the game.
I feel like the lack of any history in the game means that they’re coaching purely based on their knowledge and understanding of the game — and that’s all that really matters in a coach.
Well, for the X’s and O’s anyway.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
A thinking Woody Hayes!
Actually, that’s a pretty astute observation.
Is to the ground game what Leach is to the passing game
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
You've found the connection
Fear of anything invented after the 1950’s.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Los shouldnt be compared to Vanover yet
If he can learn to pass protect well, he could play rb. If not, he is another slot WR.
Last time ND and FSU got the top two QB recruits, they were named Ron Powlus and Thad Busby
I think of him more of a just get him the ball a few times a game and let something happen type.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think you have to
His raw ability is visible, i think a couple runs, kick returns and a few pass plays set up for him are necessary. He LOVES contact and the speed is simply amazing.
by Burghnole36 on Jan 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I totally agree with the move. I'll take the more instinctive, less athletic guys at safety.
I’ll take the less instinctive, most athletic guy on the team with the ball in his hands all day. We dont have to get real complex. Just hand him the ball, snap it to him, or give him some easy routes to run.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Something to this, IMO
It doesnt matter how good of an athlete he is if he’s not in the right spot. It would be a shame to have one really weak spot while he learns w a guy like Brooks on the bench.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Safety is the second most cerebral position besides MLB. Maybe even tied for first. Having a fast guy out there with no instincts just means he is further out of position.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
Which is still one level above a slow guy with no instincts
who may accidentally be in better position due to lack of speed, but will consistently be looking the wrong way.
Though I love Nole history, I won’t name names. (Sadly, I don’t need to.)
Having a fast guy out there with no instincts just means he is further out of position.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
Jimbo just read this
and is frantically searching his playbook for something “simple”.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Try "the incompletion drill"....
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
Slot?
Disagree
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:09 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
The move of Los and possibly Moody(I think he should) could help land Louis.
And possibly another safety we weren’t thinking about. We have Brooks and LJ, Moody could move back to safety if there is an injury. If we get really desperate, we can move XR27 back to safety in an emergency.
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Moody
Bud, at one time you were skeptical about moody moving to LB. I def see the logic in moving him, but will he play much or only provide depth? I cant think of a bigger hitter on the team…but will the issues in coverage keep him off the field?
"You're always going to have those butterflies. If you don't then you're not a competitor and you're not a player. When you lose that feeling in your stomach that's when you need to not do it anymore. That's what makes it special and exciting."- Jimbo Fisher
I was skeptical of him doing anything there. Still am. At least it’s depth.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
240? Really. I did not know that. If it's true he carries it very well.
His natural position is OLB. He played it in HS and he hits like an all American in college. Would love to see him play it a little and see him get off blocks and hand out licks.
Peep the pic above
He did play a little LB in highschool, but just wasn’t passionate about it, played mostly CB and S in H.S.
arrington jenkins
do u think this has become more of an option post jenkins dismissal? also i cant believe how worried everyone is about this….Los on KO returns is enoght for me to want to put this kid in the slot or hback and watch him blow past LBs. Also is Los not big enough to play TE or is it picking up the blocking schemes
"You're always going to have those butterflies. If you don't then you're not a competitor and you're not a player. When you lose that feeling in your stomach that's when you need to not do it anymore. That's what makes it special and exciting."- Jimbo Fisher
it was a straight run
why does everyone think a straight line run for a kid we already know is blazing fast for his size means he would be a ballin WR? FWIW, if not S/LB, WR is his next best position, but certainly not at slot WR. straight line speed =/= quickness at slot.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Nobody thinks he’ll be a balling wr. Just a special athlete who gets the ball a few times a game on touches.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
i wouldnt mind him getting a few touches if it was between snaps at S
think Devin Hester – keep him on D so his development keeps going (easier to play catch up at WR), but stick him in at WR a few times. #9 will not stick out to a CB who isnt paying attention, so he would blend right in on those few touches.
i just hate wasting that kind of talent on 3 touches a game, due to our depth of talent at WR – putting him at H-back is just going to waste it even more and piss of O’Leary.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
just dispelling the myth i see a scary number of times above
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Yeah I understand this concept of getting him a "few" touches, but
man it just seems like such a waste of talent, to not have him on the field for either every defensive play, or not have him get the ball consistently on offense
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 18, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Then again, I didnt see the post below, so the question I have is
Is this concept of a few touches just for this upcoming year, or for the rest of his tenure at FSU?
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 18, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
to be on the field every defensive snap
he has to master a defensive position.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
So he'll never be a starter at FSU?
Then it sounds like we wasted his career in an attempt to avoid wasting a second year with him.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You mean 2013?
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
K Williams body type reminds me of...wait for it....Megatron
When you watch him live he runs and moves like Calvin but what really stands out is that he also is naturally physical. Not common among average WR.
I think he could turn into a Demaryius Thomas
;___;
by Tubby Sweetbundle on Jan 18, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Only, you know, playing with an ACTUAL QuarterBack.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
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Dear god
forgot all about that Bradham hit, destroyed Bird, Jenkins threw Miller down like he was a chump and E.Dawk intercepts the ball.
Try Karlos where ever the want, they always said they wanted the best players on the field, doesn’t matter where to me.
Tomahawk Nation- Great FSU football and English lessons!
Terrence Brooks played in every game last year and recorded 17 tackles, 5 PBU and 1 INT.
Compated to the guy he is probably replacing, Terrance Parks who had 47 tackles, 2 PBU and 1 INT.
Brooks played a fair amount and was no slouch, and when comparing playing time (which I dont have the minutes), his numbers were not far off from Parks.
thats why i want him to move to FS, let Los play SS
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Joyner would play SS
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
not next year, 2013
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
i think so
dude looked like a veteran as a S this year, his first year back at the position
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
but at least he has a comparator
people saw Bob Sanders do well, and they have seen him play CB too. could be a Cromartie type deal where they see potential at S or CB (Cromartie at CB/WR) and draft him based on athleticism and potential either way. if not for our embarrassing S’s (thank you Moody and Parks) he would still be at CB, and he played that well too.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
norm, yes
but they are notorious for sometimes drafting based on production, even if it seems high. dont forget, he is a KR too. Hester hasnt done hardly anything at WR (comparatively speaking), nothing at all at CB, but he was well worth the money anyway.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
KR yes. But hasn’t demonstrated enough in KO returns for a GM IMO. More GMs play it safe and draft on spec. Not saying he isnt capable – But conservative nature of the league tends to dictate a lower draft grade rather than higher when you don’t fit the cookie cutter (Al Davis excluded, RIP)
how low?
i can see him going in the 3rd next year, at the lowest. maybe works his way into the mid 2nd. doesnt really get better to stay a year (doesnt grow)
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
As always selection will depend on need & system.
One of the things with this new deal too is to consider that many will come out early to get to the real money faster and out of their rookie deal
Joyner may pull a CP7
Aside from height Joyner offers things most others do not.
Extra long arms.
Brutal hitting.
Extreme Range.
Mental knowledge/reads from Stoops’s multiple defense ala CP7 on O.
If you put him in a combine with others from the same position and interviews, I think he’ll grade out pretty high. Kid has good demeanor, humble attitude, and willingness to learn. He is a gem.
I agree. Im just pointing out you’d have to find a GM/Player personnel director who felt comfortable enough overlooking the measurables and be probably in a Tampa 2 type of system to be comfortable drafting him extremely extremely high.
Its not impossible. Just not sure which GM would get out of the cookie cutter.
Bob Sanders couldn’t stay healthy, that comparison is not going to help him.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
really? because health is related to other players...how?
you cant project one player’s health onto another, that is just absurd.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
No. He’s may being implying that the stature of size playing that position is what GMs may think its a “minus” because injury factor “could” be greater
that would be stupid
undersized would be too thin, not to short. MJD scoffs at this implication.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
and it once again turned out to be untrue
i would think GMs are smarter than to fall back on such dumb things as guessing about injury from a quality that is not injury-prone, like height. i can see wanting a taller RB, but that has nothing to do with injuries.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
By that token you’re assuming ever personnel GMs make are correct and always work out. They don’t. As a general rule they have “specs” for players and from there they build out. When a player doesn’t fill out the spec… They are much more hesitant taking players.
i understand the hesitance to draft a player deemed too short (or tall) for the position
that makes sense, and the minority of GMs will break that mold. what makes no sense at all is attaching injury to short stature, rather than slight stature. tall and thin may be more injury prone, but short and stocky is not.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Height affects the amount of weight you can put on your frame. Safety’s in the NFL have to come up and tackle 220-250 LB players with regularity. Its not completely ridiculous to think that a lack of size could have contributed to Sanders’ injuries. Especially when the injuries were contact related. Either way, it doesn’t matter what you think, unless you are secretly an NFL personnell man. Perception of decision makers is what matters.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
of course it doesnt matter what i think
nor does it matter what you think. the point of this exercise is to think logically about what would matter to a GM. unless you know one, you have no better knowledge on that subject than i do.
there are safeties that are packed lighter than Sanders and do just fine, some guys are injury prone and some arent. you could make the argument that 190 LB CBs should be hurt all the time when they have to tackle 220 LB receivers, but that would be equally wrong.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
What GM’s think is that safeties of Bob Sanders’ size are injury prone.
And CBs tackling WR are completely different types of tackles. They aren’t meeting a physical player in a hole head on. Usually they are making a shoestring or arm tackle in space on a guy who isn’t trying to plow them over.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
Only at CB.
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
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Los would be FS and Brooks SS in Stoops’ scheme.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
dont care if he calls them backward, i call them the way everyone else does
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Cool. Makes you wrong when you talk about the players in his scheme though.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
we all know it is backward, and we all know where the FS plays
stop being argumentative
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Jan 18, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So ironic
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 7:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Being right isn't everything.
It’s just so much fun to debate without that burden.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
The way i think about it:
Playing safety is 75% mental.
Running a jet sweep is 99% physical, which luckily Los has in spades.
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Assumptions Re: Karlos:
-It is better to have him on the field than on the bench.
-It is better to have him on O than out of position at S (Anyone else remember previous undisciplined play at safety?!).
If the previous assumptions are correct, then Williams should be able to help FSU way more on offence.
by mountain renegade on Jan 18, 2012 11:40 AM EST reply actions
What if he is out of position on O?
Runs the wrong route or whatever?
on a sweep?
can limit where he goes in routes – him pushing a vertical helps cause you have to respect the speed
He can definitely
take the cap off a defense and open up the deep middle for sure
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 18, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm. I think my problem with this is.
I get that he is an athlete. But he will still be an athlete no matter where on the field. It’s the coaches job to teach him a position that he can excel at. I’m not a fan of him taking time away from learning safety to practice a couple sweep plays. Or if he will be a better WR I am not a fan of losing this last year of eligibility by trying to teach him safety. I don’t really care where he is on the field. I just wish him and the coaches would pick a position and stick with it.
Then he doesn't get the ball thrown to him
If he finds himself out of place on defense as a backside defender the consequences are much more dire
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 18, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not if everyone else is covered
He would have cost us a TD either way.
I suck at writing. Sorry.
Basically my original point was that KW needs to be in position on O. westcoast was saying that it was better to be out of position on O than on D. I disagree. If KW runs the wrong route it could cost us a TD, just like if he is out of position on D it could cost us a TD.
Direct vs. Indirect
He could directly cost us a TD on D, indirectly on O.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Papercut vs. Stroke
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 18, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You raise a valid question.
The answer assumes that KW is better on O than D, which is only based on his kick return duty (and some wishful thinking on my part). I see him at RB, but that isn’t any better, if he blows assignments. I would way rather give up a TD than get EJ killed due to a missed block.
by mountain renegade on Jan 18, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Is the "just try to get him in space a few times a game" role just to get him on the field as a sophomore? Or his only role at FSU?
I would have to say I’d be disappointed if his 3-4 year career was spent in that role.
He has all the physical tools to be a standout S, LB, or even WR. I would hope our coaching could propel him to at least a “good” position player by the end of his career.
Obviously he’s not ready to play safety, and won’t beat out Joyner or Brooks for 2012. Where does he go as a junior/senior?
Sophomore
With multiple years at a position like WR he would dominate. Physically incredible.
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Because it's not as cerebral
He can use his God-given ability and instincts that he can’t use at safety
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Who was that dominant Clemson freshman WR/RB hybrid guy
The big fast guy no one could tackle?
I think Los could be just as good.
thats a little much
Watkins is an AJ Green, Julio Jones talent at WR. if anyone on our team was that good at WR, he would not have spent the year on ST.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Playing the safey position
We all love Karlos because of the physical freak that he is and make no mistakes if you had a safety with those attributes it could be lethal. The thing is none of us has seen him play the position at the college level so to state he is better/worse than the other options at this point are wrong. I know going into next year that 3 safeties I like more than him Joyner, Brooks and Moody everyone else is a wait and see approach.
Now for the real point of this it doesn’t take a physical freak to be a great safety, things that are important are instincts, full system knowledge and a ton of time in film study. You don’t see that many physical freaks at the safety position in the NFL right now. The all pros this year Eric Weddle and Troy Polomalu neither are close to the size speed combo like Williams. The player I think is the best Safety Ed Reed wouldn’t be called a physical freak by anyone. From 1999 to 2011 only one all pro safety would classified as a physical freak (Adrian Wilson) the rest are obviously athletic, the point is that being a physical freak isn’t needed. The other players on that list Lawyer Millow, John Lynch, Mike Brown, Brian Dawkins, Bob Sanders, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Roy Williams and Darrin Sharper.
by 21nole24 on Jan 18, 2012 11:44 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
SIAP
but possible he bulks up to an OLB?
by newdynastynole on Jan 18, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions
By the end of this discussion
he’ll be slated to replace Bernard James.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't be silly
James’ leadership is irreplacable.
Did you know he was in the Air Force?!?!?!
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
With all the talk of him playing WR, I think the one attribute I haven’t heard was does he have the hands to play WR. If he can’t catch, don’t want him lining up at WR.
Watch his high school film.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes, he can catch
he is a good WR, and a natural athlete. my concern is, and has always been, our depth at WR and lack thereof at S.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Between Williams and G5
How many TD returns, Punt and Kickoff, have they had negated by penalties this season? It seemed like it was almost 1 a game~ That HAS to be incredibly frustrating for those guys week in and out.
I named my first born "Bud Elliott". She will thank me when she is older~
#rememberthefive
Hey Bud a Roo
Do you think that the recruiting service did him a bit of a disservice by ranking him so highly as a safety?
I mean, alot of the backlash I’m seeing (not here, FWIW) is “Why would you take a 5* S and put him on offense? Thats dumb, blah, blah, blah”.
Obviously our coaches knew what they had, but is it possible that he should’ve been classified as an ATH?
Just seems like he is a 5* football player who played safety because that’s where he was most valuable
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If he thought he wanted to play wideout coming out of HS wuld he have been a 5* wr? I think so.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
He WAS classified as an athlete for a while.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I thought so too
Sites have him listed as S, LB, QB, WR, etc.
Regarfing the comment about being a 5* WR, I agree 100%. I think recruiting services/hype pigeon holed him a bit, and fans can’t shake that mindset that he should be a safety. Period.
Formerly known as Randall W. Spetman.
by CornNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Does anyone think this move might be in conjunction with the upcoming recruiting class?
You fulfill the RB, WR and LB needs by moving KW, Moody and having Pender, Bracy and Eligwe commit (Northrup and Louis could be committing as LB and WR respectively)
You clear room for 4 potential incoming DB’s after moving 2 (PJ, Darby, Howard and Louis who has DB skills)
Here is a Video...
Of him in High School Playing Offense. Wow Just Wow, This is a good Position Move IMO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toXI4m6WAPA
How about them Noles!
Follow @FSUIZZY
Also
After viewing this video I feel he could play RB, or maybe slot WR. But he would have no Problem playing RB. He just would be a really tall RB!
How about them Noles!
Follow @FSUIZZY
Keep in mind his HS competition was awful.
I’m as fast as a lot of those kids on that film.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Are you as fast as most of the kids on Miami's special teams?
He made them look even worse than the high schoolers.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Next year's returns will make opposing kickers having to choose...
Between Scylla and Charybdis
I heard Charybdis was a silent to Auburn
And Scylla might be a sign and place.
And sneak GR5 onto the field, up around the 20 or so
Just in case they decide to kick it short to avoid the back two.
Karlos Williams = Christian Green?
Both are about 6’ 2" 200. Both have great speed. Both played multiple positions in high school. Karlos probably doesnt slip as much.
Can you imagine a 4 WR set of Greene, Green, Williams and Dent? I may be crossing my positions on the X, Y, Z’s but that would be a hard group to guard.
Add in that it spreads the field out giving a running QB lots of daylight.
I think CG has more wiggle and body control. Karlos is definitely faster.
by Bud Elliott on Jan 18, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Karlos could instantly become
our best deep threat, and at least our second best immediately.
"I dont hate people. I just feel better when they aren't around." -Bukowski
by cerebralfish on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Meant to say Shaw not Dent.
Greene, Green, Williams and Shaw.
by TimScribble on Jan 18, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Think about Bracy instead of Shaw.
Williams, Greene, Green, Bracy. Quite possibly all run sub 4.4
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 12:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
haha..I was JUST about to say put Shaw instead of Dent up above....
well said…
Follow Me On Twitter@KelvinHunt
by Kelvin Hunt on Jan 18, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Karlos is bigger (220 not 200) and faster
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Christian Green does NOT slip,
little known fact, a sniper shoots him in the foot after he catches every ball
and yes, he heals very fast
This news just made my day.
I can see Karlos having a huge impact for us on offense next year.
by fsunole23 on Jan 18, 2012 12:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes. Me too. If we only had a good WR last year
nobody would’ve stopped us.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
really need a sarcasm font, or at least an emoticon
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
The name of thr poster should be the tipoff here
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 12:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
lol
rec
Not tho' the soldier knew, Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die, Into the valley of Death Rode the 85.
by Shooter McFrattin on Jan 18, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's why it get's better
Ohhhh….couldn’t stop myself.
by Buddy Reynolds on Jan 18, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's actually Vince Williams moving to offense
sorry for the confusion, everybody. Carry on.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And by offense
We mean punter.
'Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman
Only because Aguayo will start at MLB next year.
His hips will be a real asset to the intermediate zone…
"D.RUSSO IS THE MAN" -DA-2
Follow me on Twitter for all the outrageous sh!t I can't say on Tomahawk Nation...
Follow @DRusso97
Doubt Karlos will move to Offense.
He’s much more valuable on defense for us. Joyner and Brooks are small, and they can be mismatches against big TEs, like Tyler Eifert from ND. Karlos should get more playing time at safety this year. He could get some plays on offense, but I doubt he moves to offense. The kid can easily play the safety position from the games I have seen. Parks started last year, and he left alot plays on the field. Karlos must learn the system, so he can earn playing time.
by Oort Cloud Nole on Jan 18, 2012 12:42 PM EST reply actions
Where is his value?
defending the bench? :)
"I wish you loved me as much as you love TomahawkNation!"
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
Too damn funny. True as hell though
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 18, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
It's about damn time Moody plays OLB
Been saying this should happen since he set foot on campus. Myron Rolle should’ve played LB too.
We were all created to be Seminoles. This is why we bleed garnet and piss gold.
by NoleThruandThru on Jan 18, 2012 12:42 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is impossible to judge correctly unless you have seen him practice
Bud have you seen him in practice?
Because it is hard to judge after just one year at the position unless he was just horrible at everything regarding defense and the position. He looked good in the Under Armor game but all I saw was him laying wood, making interceptions, and running it back.
He is an athlete but in my opinion I think we do what is best for the depth chart and getting him on the field. I think it is evident that the guy is a freak athlete and it would be waste to see him on the field for special teams only.
But I dont know how quickly he can pick up the receiver position and make an impact. I think he wouldn’t make much of an impact for 2012 either. He has a lot of players ahead of him on the depth chart and I think it is possible for him to jump ahead of Dent and Haggins but he won’t surpass Shaw, Greene, Green, Smith, or Haulstead (if he plays).
There will always be stud receivers in the state to choose from who can make an early impact but the safety position takes a while to learn, especially with Stoops.
I like him at safety, the size and speed that he possess with the ability to just knock people out with his tackling is not something that comes along every now and then. But ultimately the coaches know best. But I prefer him at safety mainly due to our depth.
Don’t put tremendous amount of stock in All-Star games. Like you did, just watch to see demeanor & physical ability.
- The belief is though on certain situations (sweeps) or Vertical route in a smash to clear people immediate benefit because he can run and catch right now.
Especialls since offenses and defenses in All-Star games are as simple as simple can be simple. Simple.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
They also have to limit the stunts of the Dlineman.
And there is no way to get an OLine to gel in the amount of practice time they give for those games.
All star games are really 11 one-on-one matchups.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 18, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
It just seems clear that the subtext to this entire move
Is that the kid isn’t going to see the field at meaningful snaps at safety any time soon. And nobody is fit to make that judgement but the coaches.
I don’t think they’d move a potential all-american safety to the 6th receiver, so I have to assume they don’t anticipate anything out of him, at least in 2012.
Bud
What do you think the nickel package will look like if Los makes the move? I think up until now we all assumed Brooks would slide over to nickel…
by booshigotyou on Jan 18, 2012 1:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I know you asked for Bud
but I’m betting Waisome plays the slot. Or Reid moves inside and Waisome plays outside.
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 1:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'd prefer to see Reid inside.
We know the boy can lay the wood and he’s gotten better at wrapping up.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
and he is terribly undisciplined, which is perfect for a nickel back
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
I thought he was excellent this year
didn’t really see any problems with his on-field discipline.
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
still got beat too often
just not as much as the shoulder nudge from last year, but he still freelanced. that can be good (see 2009) but only at nickel.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
His getting beat really didn’t have much to do with being disciplined except for the Clemson game on the wr pass (I think). It was mostly him getting outjumped by a larger player.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
he got beat more times than that
getting outjumped happened rarely
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
With Rhodes on the other side, he is going to have more chances to get beat. He still played well this year. And you originally mentioned his “terribly undisciplined” play and his “freelancing.” There really wasn’t much of that though.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
he played much better than the year before
but he still has his issues. that, and he is better at nickel than lining up on a WR, since it accentuates his best attributes (instincts, break on the ball, freelancing)
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Yup. That was @ Wake, but I know what you mean.
He got caught looking at the QB on Stills’ TD (ouch). Other than those, nothing wrong with his discipline this year.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 18, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
That makes sense. I hope waisome gains this off season. Not sure exactly how to play nickel, but I assume it’s more zone and less man, which I think suits Reid.
by booshigotyou on Jan 18, 2012 1:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nickel is normally for quicker corners.
One of the main reasons is because the routes that come from the slot receiver are normally shorter, quicker routes (slants, drags, hitches, 5-yard in’s and out’s)
by flash_kiley on Jan 18, 2012 2:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I remember being amazed by his return in the UA All American Game
That pick 6 really showed his skills with the ball in his hands
Can't wait to see
Him running jet sweeps and stretch plays. My mind instantly thought of aaron Hernandez in the pats vs broncos game.
by booshigotyou on Jan 18, 2012 1:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sorry if this was already mentioned..
.. but I can’t sift through every comment to be sure. If Jimbo does indeed want to move him to offense, does Karlos even want to move away from the safety position. Is there a possibility that Jimbo doesn’t see him fitting on defense at all and in turn Karlos looks to transfer to another school for the opportunity to play safety?
When God hands you lemons, squeeze them in a Gator's eye.
Hasn't been mentioned, and we don't have to worry
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 18, 2012 2:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If you look at exactly 12:29, number 28 on miami looks offsides.
Of course It is probably close enough that it’s good but still. It is more a penalty than the hold call.
I like the idea of moving him to offense
I see CJF using him as a hybrid. Los combined with Green, Greene, Shaw and NOL sounds pretty good.
by patriotnole on Jan 18, 2012 3:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Karlos
Karlos did not get alot pt because he wasn’t an EE, and SS in Stoops systems calls in the plays. He’ve potentially many big recievers on the Offense. O’Leary, Tye, and Benajmin could field that void on the offense. I have never heard Jimbo mentioning the moving of Karlos to offense. I have only heard talkshow hosts comment on the matter.
by Oort Cloud Nole on Jan 18, 2012 3:19 PM EST reply actions
Tye and Benjamin?
really?
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Tye and Benjamin?
Some of the people on this board are slow. It takes some players more time to major contribute than others. Both Kamerion Wimbley and Travis Johnson didn’t reach their potential until their senior years. It took Myron Rolle a two years before he a really good SS.
by Oort Cloud Nole on Jan 18, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry I'm slow
Please explain why these slower, heavier, not as athletic players could “field” the void on the offense better than Karlos.
Please be very clear, for I am slow.
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Umm... this is uneducated at best
Tye is a TE (and not one that has seen the field) and Benjamin is not half the athlete that Karlos is and is probably our 8th best receiver. Maybe sit the next couple plays out.
Tye and Benjamin
Both will be RSoph and RSF next year. Tye is atleast as fast as O’Leary is, and Benjamin could be a mismatch like Mike Williams was at USC. Our secondary had really hard time of covering Alshon Jeffrey in the bowl last year. Again, i have neve heard Jombo mention the move of Karlos to offense. I just heard this from talkshow hosts, and this article. It is just speciation at this point. If Jimbo, moves Karlos this Spring then I;m happy with it.
by Oort Cloud Nole on Jan 18, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
and Benjamin could be a mismatch like Mike Williams was at USC
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 19, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Percy Position
I am a little nervous about the depth at safety if LOS moves to offense…..
….but using him as a ‘Percy Harvin’ makes SO much sense to me. It would be smart to have LOS on the field as much as possible. I dont see why we couldnt install at least a package for him. Some plays would be designed specefically for him and others would be run off those plays where he is the decoy. It seems like pretty standard practice to me. What isn’t standard is LOS’ athletic ability; get the ball in his hands and watch him go HAM.
Yeah big deal, but can he play Jai-Alai?
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
no creo
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 18, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
This Percy Harvin-role talk is great...
But no one has mentioned how scary him and EJ could be coming down the line on some sort of shotgun triple option type stuff. Put Los in motion and get him and EJ on the edge… good luck stopping that
by Cody@TN on Jan 18, 2012 3:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I am sure this has been said at some piint on here and I missed it. But after 1 year at school
Is taking the #1 rated safety in the country, the jewel of your class, a top 10 player in the country, and the talk of a future NFL talent from the time he is in high school and considered just a special player and moving him more then just a little move?
I am not saying he wont become one of the greatest WR we ever have. Just seems strange that a player that was #1 in the country at there position is being thought to move to the other side of the ball. First off I would have to imagine KW does not mind this move. Would be a pretty bad signal that we have to move the best kid in the country to the other side of the ball after 1 season. Was he that overated as a safety? Or underated as a WR? We have no idea if he can be a WR. We know he can at least learn safety and with his talent be good. Is it very wise to take that chance and move him into a pretty deep WR field with Greene, Shaw, Green, all young and and add in some real young blue chip RB’s. Or is this a type of move because he is just sch a freak once in a generation athlete that getting the ball in his hands on offense is a weapon so valuable that it needs to be used over what we have.
Again. If he goes to WR and thrives that would be just as awesome as at safety. But we seem deeper at WR and seems weird to take the best kid in the country in his recruiting class and move him after a year.. I know kids switch. Rhodes perfect example. But just odd to see it with a kid like him. UNlss he wants it himself and is simply projected to be an All American WR and there is something that shows he can play it.
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by caine115 on Jan 18, 2012 4:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking this too
JWJ got his 5th star take away last year basically because he was playing RB instead of LB. I would think that if Los was that green as a Safety he would never have kept his 5th star.
I think he wants the rock, man.
He wants to play. and to play early. He can do that with the O
I like turning beer into pee
FWIW
I’ve told gator heads that I know (Hanging on my wall. JK) that UF will get more out of Matt Elam than we will out of Los’ in terms of production. There was a reason Hesean Clinton-Dix was the more highly rated S of the two for most of their SR. year. Los’ is a physical talent that is rarely seen but unfortunately it seems that he’s more “athlete” than actual “football player” at this point probably to a certain lack of football IQ.
From what scouts have said Marquis Lee (Now of USC) actually had a better season on the field at safety than either Los’ or HCD in their SR year in high school (Lee was also a 1300 yard WR that year too). Granted he’s now a monster at WR but he was able to pull of the switch due to having a high football IQ and being able to process information and pro style route concepts (The USC playbook is notoriously thick). Disappointed in the fact that Los’ hasn’t caught on to the defense and calling coverages but the fact of the matter is if he’d shown promise is practice situations this would not be something being considered. But like mentioned above being a physical freak isn’t a prerequisite for playing safety. It does require a certain degree of instincts
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 18, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
some recruiting sites had Los > HCD, e.g.,
ESPN http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2011/order/true
And HCD hasn’t “caught on to Alabama’s D yet” either, so give him some time.
Championship!
I'm aware of the rankings order
Los didn’t overtake HCD for #1 until late in the process. However, I don’t see HCD being talked about in a potential position change as of yet
by westcoastnolefan on Jan 18, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Have to do with HC? Jimbo wanting Los on O whereas Saban wanting HCD on D?
Jimbo to Stoops: I’ll trade ya JWJ for Los. How about it? One 5* for another?
I’ve told gator heads that I know (Hanging on my wall. JK) that UF will get more out of Matt Elam than we will out of Los’ in terms of production.
Love that this was the first sentence. Unfortunately I agree with you. I think we can still get a lot of Los, but Elam is going to be an animal.
That said, the reason I thought your arrangement was especially spot on is because while he may not be a 5 star player in terms of impact, I hope we always remember that he was a big part of the FSU is back campaign. He was out there recruiting for us, staying out of trouble, essentially being the kind of recruit you dream of. I will always look back on that class and think, Thanks Los.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
I don't see Elam being there past 2012...
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Then he'll never win against FSU
fine by me. Hope it makes him sick to his stomach when he thinks about that.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 19, 2012 9:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Exactly
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reminds me of eric dickerson
dickerson was 6-3, 220
Agreed
We are talking about KARLOS WILLIAMS. I do not want to see him w/ 2-3 touches and returning kicks. I want KW on the field (whether it be on offense or defense) 24/7.
"It's great to beat a Florida Gator...It's great to beat a Florida Gator..."
by garnet and golden in jax on Jan 18, 2012 4:48 PM EST reply actions
If anything
I thought Los would make the move to LB.
"It's great to beat a Florida Gator...It's great to beat a Florida Gator..."
by garnet and golden in jax on Jan 18, 2012 4:49 PM EST reply actions
Still think Wilder should.
But that’s a whole nother issue
I like turning beer into pee
Bud, not sure if this was asked yet, but could you see Karlos getting a small offensive package and still getting practice reps on D?
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
If he's gonna play O
I would just want him to be Full Time Offensive Player. Give em the play book, put him in the film room and make him watch WR routes. All the time. Don’t cloud his head with Stoops Schemes and weird packages, just go all or nothing with him as an Offensive Player.
I like turning beer into pee
If we are talking about 3-4 touches a game on reverses, wildcat, and such, he doesn’t need to spend much time studying the O. Could conceivably still learn the D.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
Maybe.
But maybe he does alright and starts making real progress in 2012 and in 2013 he’s just become this monster and fits right into the offense. I mean this guy could really, really blow the top off any defense, at the very least, he’s gotta be accounted for. Somebody has to cover him. Maybe two guys.
I like turning beer into pee
that would be the preferred option
not much to practice in a small offensive set, and it gives him time to improve at S. basically started from scratch, so it takes time to learn from that point. if he just isnt cutting it next year, the move can be permanent. it gets him time to improve at S, and it gives him exposure to WR while not wasting him in a deep WR corps.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
The point basically is Jimbo wants him on the field. My parody of Stoops day and Jimbo asking Stoops is Los going to play was only half in jest. Need to get that playmaker out there is some form or fashion to be around the ball and if its not safety. Then potentially as a WR/HB in a bunch set , WR on a reverse or Wildcat along the KOs will do.
Ok good, thats what I was thinking. Mention to your people to look at how the Pats are using Aaron Hernandez this year, as a RB, TE, Slot, etc.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
Put me down as saying that KW will get reps on offense in the spring but ultimately stay at safety when it is all said and done
because the depth isn’t there like it is at WR and also Brooks will get reps at nickel and emerge as the clear cut top guy there.
If Williams ultimately ends up on offense though, does anyone see a scenario where C Green isn’t forced to transfer out? (I’d also put Dent and Haggins in that boat.)
With the way Jimbo spreads the ball around
I wouldn’t think ANYBODY would transfer, but if somebody did, I would think Kelvin would, way, WAYYYYY before Christian Green who’s only a (rs)Soph more in 2012 would. Plus Green can play…nobody knows about Benjiman.
I like turning beer into pee
Green showed some flashes
but struggled catching the ball(38% success rate, one of the few guys under 50%). He would need to really get it together to survive. But I don’t see how he stays if he got passed by KW. On the flip side I don’t see the coaches moving Williams over permanently unless they thought he was significantly better than Green, Dent, and Haggins. (Why would you move a guy who would be competing for a starting spot to go be the 6 or 7th reciever.)
Why should he move to Offense?
He would at the least provide depth at lb or safey which we need we don’t need another WR we are loaded at WR
by TheRenegade29 on Jan 18, 2012 5:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Name a guy on our Offense that can do to Defenses
What Karlos would be able to do
I like turning beer into pee
I think the coaches are watching him and see something with him on Offense
While struggling terribly at saftey, and just wanna get the ball to em. Can you blame them?
I like turning beer into pee
How can he be struggling terribly in his first year in a hard to learn defense
Knowing he never played much pass in high school. I mean unless he was the most overrated #1 safety in the history of rankings to struggle that bad to the point of switching after 1 year then he would have to be having bad mental issues. And He didnt come across as a dumb kid. I personally knew he could play on offense from what I had heard. But not be such a dominant threat that he would switch away from safety and think he can be such an amazing threat on offense that he needs to move. With Greene, Shaw, Green, ect who are all play makers as is and secondary doesnt look nearly as locked in after 2012.
I am happy yo hear and learn that apparently he can be such a monster that they want to switch him. I was unaware he was though of so high as a WR that he wasnt in that position to start and not at safety where he was best in the country
A Seminole warrior killed in battle is a legend remembered. A Gator lost in battle becomes a pair of boots and a belt.
twitter of random stuff and tons of confessing FSU love http://twitter.com/caine115
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by caine115 on Jan 18, 2012 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he's just too good to NOT play.
Gotta get him the ball a few times a game and just see what happens. I’m sure he could dump the cooler on Jimbo after some good wins all by himself and at a break neck speed, but that’s just not going to suffice.
I like turning beer into pee
I would love too see a wildcat package with Los.
I used to look forward to his returns last year. It’s a shame he never took one to the house.
by fsunole23 on Jan 18, 2012 10:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"While struggling terribly at saftey"
Do you know that for a fact?
If he was ballin at saftey
Why would the coaches even THINK about this move? Ya have to read between the lines.
I like turning beer into pee
I think it comes down to this...
KW would be more of a liability at safety than the alternatives on the depth chart. Following this train of logic, he’d be in line for time on the bench.
Rather than leave an amazing asset like Williams on the bench, CJF and co. could (and probably should) utilize him as much as they can. If it’s not as a safety, his next most likely shot to see the field would be catching, or pounding, the rock.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
Charles Woodson X 3
Lets put all these speculations to rest and just let him play on both sides as Jimbo and Co. see fit!! Its only going to benefit us with him getting touches on O and coming in on D in crucial parts of the game. Win,Win situation for Los, the Noles and the Fans! My be a darkhorse for the Heisman if everything works out as planned.
Noles4Life!!
EJ was a 5 star on Scout
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 18, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Winston?
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
yep
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
also the #3 player in the nation on Rivals
behind Vince Young and Haloti Ngata. 5* #1 RB on Scout.
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
Can't Teach Speed, Athletcism, or Size
1. We can never have enough tall physical WRs especially after Haulstead’s injuries. Opens up the field vertically, and gives us another deadly option that can match up against teams with elite DBs that we will meet if/when we make it back to a big BCS game.
2. Imagine having Devonta Freeman, Mario Pender, Marvin Bracy, Rashad Greene, and Karlos Williams on the offensive side of the field at the same time. As a DC who do you cover? JF wants to create as many mismatches as possible.
3. Our offense needs more help than our defense right now.
by Nolage is Power on Jan 18, 2012 7:46 PM EST reply actions
Like an affordable sammy watkins...
Los could finally give jimbo and the o-line a break…not requiring the 10+ play drives of stellar execution to get in scoring range.
A nice balanced WR corp:
Rashad
Rodzilla
Shaw
Los
C. Green (when his skates dont give out)
Will give the demon deacons headaches next year!! sss sss sss
This probably didnt make much sense
by BjoernHustlin on Jan 18, 2012 8:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
When we turn the ball over
Just think of the hit he’ll make on the defensive player who picks it up
by Robbyrut on Jan 19, 2012 12:03 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Wow
I didn’t know that my post a few months ago would go this far..but to all those who doubted me and my opinion about Los moving 2 offense, then..well u know tha rest. Maybe in the near future some of these so-called Noles fans will listen 2 a true Nole who knows football,not just a bunch of stats and bogus b.s. I knew this would come up about Los but I didn’t think it would be this soon. I guess thank the beat writer but I called it first
Noles4Life!!
I think
FSU will beat Murray St this year. Listen 2 a tru NOLE fan. I called it First!
by FSUKook on Jan 19, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Great Job
At least you know your place, you stick to the small stuff and leave the Big Story Lines to me. Very much appreciated!! LOL “True Nole”
Noles4Life!!
So Newberg mentioning it and Bud calling for it while Los was being recruited doesn't count?
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 19, 2012 9:59 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
That'll teach those that laughed at you.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jan 19, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I predict I will be warned for making a veiled sexual reference in a recruiting thread....
#CallingItNow
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The safety position
Now concerns me a bit . I think brooks/LJ combination is gonna be freaking awesome. But if one of these guys gets hurt. Bright/Demps are our only options? If moody moves to OLB this is.
Next year Joyner could be gone. We lose a 5 star at Safety too in Karlos now. So we have brooks and demps/hunter/keelin/brutus in the 2nd spot. Imagine if brooks goes down and we hafta start two of these guys….
It appears PJ williams is now a very important recruit for us. In that we need him to pan out in a major way. Seems like we need a stud safety for 2013 recruit pretty damn bad.
Everyone is cross trained
Can’t forget about T. Hunter, L. Brutus, and K. Smith who have all had a year within the system
Tired of youth
Youth makes mistakes and in our case it is a result of our seniors washing out. You win when the “grown-ass men” you recruit actually become grown-ass men.
by vanillathrilla83 on Jan 19, 2012 9:58 AM EST reply actions
I'd like to see you tell that to Timmy Jernigan's face.
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 19, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Lots of WR talk for Los
But as an extremely technical and quality collegiate WR (All-American D2, and Walk on at FSU) who was on the practice field when Michael Boulware arrived on campus to Play WR…I can tell you with confidence, it’s not easy to just “switch” to WR or to even play it successfully without being trained in the art of running routes or catching balls. (I’m not sure what pedigree Los has here, so someone may be able to fill me in)
I think Boulware was a successful WR at the high school level, and a freak physical specimen and athlete as we all know, but he was completely incapable of playing WR at this level. I think Los is higher on the athlete scale and has awesome speed, but if he can’t deal with coverage (press or hard 2) and he can’t catch the ball consistently, then moving him to WR is a disservice to the kid first and the team ultimately. Sure he could learn all this but by when? If he’s not played the position (Again, i’m not sure what he played on O in HS) it won’t be an easy transition. I never once saw a guy get moved From D to WR on a college roster and contribute minus the freak 2 way guys we all can name (Generally elite athletes who are DB’s, but they usually played both ways).
I would love to see Los on O, and if he can play WR legitimately, he would be sweet at that position. Built like Anquan, taller and faster though. But Anquan was amazingly skilled, and made the transition from QB to WR very naturally…obviously. Interesting discussion, if anyone has more background info on Los, perhaps that could help, but just pointing out what I know from someone who is extremely passionate when it comes to the art of being a WR….
by Matthew Juaire on Jan 19, 2012 11:15 AM EST reply actions
Thanks for the great post!
Los did indeed play primarily WR and RB on offense. You should really check on his film HERE to get a better idea, he seems to be able to snatch the ball with his hands instead of using his body, which is a big sign of confidence (in my opinion) in his receiving abilities.
I also feel it will be tough for teams to press him successfully even at the collegiate level due to his huge build (6’2" 220) coupled with his great speed (10.5 100m). Press coverage without help would almost certainly warrant a go route and allow him to simply use his size to beat the press and his speed to create separation.
Anyways, thanks for the input!
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 19, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
right on
What a sick highlight reel. Anyway, not a lot there in terms of the technical portion of WR, but the question isn’t is he capable athletically, because ultimately he can learn to be effective with those athletic skills. So then I would ask, where is he going to be most effective…we have a nice stable of WR’s and this is a guy who should be touching the ball 10-15 times a game with that game breaking ability.
I could sit down and configure a way to do that but those coaches know better than I where he’d fit in, all I know is he shouldn’t be buried on a depth chart at WR if he can’t beat out some of the others…he is murder when he gets going. Not a punt returner kind of guy but that HS highlight showed better lateral movement than his KR stuff showed this year.
by Matthew Juaire on Jan 19, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
He’s got the tools to be a big time playmaker, and I think the sole reason for the possible move to offense is would you rather give him 3-5 touches a game on offense as he grows into a WR or let him sit the bench for another year minimum and try to learn defense.
Personally, I think our D is gonna be sick with or without him, but he can fill 2 immediate voids:
First, the void when Willie Haulstead left, which is the big, strong body who can compete for the ball in the air, break a tackle, and then run away from you.
Second, the void left by Bert Reed and Chris Thompson. Bert was our reverse guy, and Karlos will be a nightmare when he rounds the corner. Thompson was our main guy in the Wildcat, but Karlos would be a natural in that role.
Overall, I could see Karlos getting about 4-5 touches a game, which leads to probably 60-70 times he could change the game on something other than a kickoff.
And I would much rather have that than him sitting the bench.
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by freshcollegeboy on Jan 19, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
How many touches did he need to create that highlight reel?
You like to have potential game-breaking threats on the field. If he seldom touches the ball and picks up 5-10 yds. / touch, then is he really that much of a threat?
Say a guy breaks 3% of his touches for homeruns and he only touches it 60 times all season (12 games x 5 touches/game), odds are he only breaks 1 play all season. Is that worth the move? Would that cause other teams to make any adjustments?
I am not one who subscribes to the designated hitter philosophy when it comes to football. I’m of the mind that a guy needs to play, get the blood and adreneline flowing, get hit and hit people to get into the groove of the came as opposed to coming in cold for a play here or there (3-5 all game long) hoping to pop one. It’s like a sober guy at a liquor party-just not feeling it.
I recall Jimbo trying to like G5 run the wildcat early on and that was a miserable failure. If the idea is to have him be a regular contributor on O in 3 & 4 wide sets or to try to turn him into Eric Dickerson and let him share time with Mario and D-Free AND IF Los has a legitimate shot at doing those things, then go ahead and try the experiment. I’m also cool if Jimbo just wants to borrow Los from the D for a few plays a game.
My suspicion is that Jimbo would want Los at RB b/c we’re thin there and it would be nice to have someone to replace Thompson’s ability to catch the edge and break one on sweeps. Pass pro is something D-Free picked up pretty well with just one spring camp, so I’d hope Los could do the same. That’s the type of thing that would require a wholesale move IMO. I guess we’ll just have to wait’n’see.
but your underlying assumption...
when you ask if it’s worth the move, seems to be that KW has some immediate value at safety. He didn’t sniff the field last year for one meaningful minute, if any, as a safety so… Something is always better than nothing and there is no telling what he might become on O. He has to start getting on the field, offense may be the way.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
What a sweet return.
Thought for sure Williams would play WR. Goes to show just how little I know about big time football.
Closing target speed.
The ability to make other people “miss” cannot be taught. A player either has it within the first few times of returning a kickoff, or he never will.
That being said. This guy is going to put points up on the board. imo. If not FSU. Then for someone who will pay him a lot of money. Make that..A Boatload of Money! imo.
People can learn how to make disciplined routes “IF” they have the will to do so.
The minute calculations that Wlliams made between his mind and his extremities, to split the bearing rates, and the angle of deflection. Then adjust his own speed, and course in order to give himself the optimum advantage, in that gap, cannot be taught.
It is the highest level calculus, and geometry, and my bet is…He may not totally understand the math but make no mistake, THIS GUY IS SMART. His mind and body are doing it for him. One day he may very well understand all the math and more.
FSU has terrific Teachers, and more importantly STUDENTS of the game.
WR, once Williams gets past the intro stage, will rapidly become cerebral, and enter into a “Relationship”, or dating stage….If you will….with the QB’s. Confidence will grow, higher with one than another…etc. How he handles FAILURE, will be his greatest test.
On D if you miss an assignment, you get to hit someone on the next play. There is almost instant stress release. W-E=L=+L. Notice the stress math on recievers when they drop a ball? Anyone see what happened to that guy on San Fran?
WR’s focus is has to be in a whole new level. Also WHEN…notice I use the word when…Not if…They do screw up a big play…They must instantly forget it and move on.
This is a message board and my opinions are not asked for; So I will shut up for now.
I really like this move, I think Karlos can handle it. Whoever thought it up. I tip my hat to you…:)
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