Florida State ACC scheduling worries? (What, me worry?)
by Chris Harrison on Jan 20, 2012 2:41 PM EST
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The concerns about ACC scheduling have been discussed here before, but I don't believe anyone has ever thoroughly researched the trends in the ACC's scheduling of Florida State. There seems to be two major issues with the ACC's scheduling of Florida State. The first being a tendency to schedule the Seminoles for Monday and Thursday night games, sometimes both in the same season, and often times within five days of another game. The other problem concerns the ACC's habit of scheduling important conference games, sometimes against the tougher opponents in the conference, right before or after a very tough non-conference opponent. I will highlight both situations, starting with the Monday and Thursday games.
Out of twenty seasons in the ACC, the Seminoles have played eight seasons of what I consider to be "normal" seasons, being that there were no Monday or Thursday games, excluding post-season. In the other twelve seasons, the Seminoles have been called upon time and again to take one for the team to play a Monday or Thursday night game, and in some instances both in one season. One season even featured two back-to-back Thursday night games. Listed below are every Monday or Thursday game the Seminoles have played since their first season in the ACC in 1992.
2011 - Played NC State at home on Saturday, October 29th, and traveled 1,000 miles to play at Boston College for a Thursday night game on November 3rd . Lovely traveling distance on five days turnaround.
2010 - Played Boston College at home on Saturday, October 16th, then traveled 500 miles to Raleigh to play at NC State for a Thursday night game on October 28th with five days turnaround which resulted in a loss.
2009 - Played Miami at home on Monday, September 7th, 2009, followed by Jacksonville State at home on Saturday, September 12th with five days rest, resulting in a very sloppy game that was much too close for comfort against an FCS program.
2009 - Played a Thursday night game at North Carolina on October 22nd, but had eleven days off between the game prior, and eight days off before the next.
2008 - Played a Thursday night game at NC State on October 16th, but did not play the Saturday before or after.
2007 - Played Monday night, September 3rd, 2007 at Clemson, came home and played UAB on five days rest. Score was FSU 34- UAB 24 (before win vacated), but probably wouldn't have been if rested normally.
2007 - Played at NC State on Saturday, October 6th, and then went to play at Wake Forest on five days rest on Thursday, October 11th, resulting in a loss.
2006 - Played at Miami on Monday, September 4th, and against Troy at home on Saturday, September 9th. FSU 24 - Troy 17. Would it have been so close on normal rest?
2006 - Played a Thursday night game at NC State on October 5th, but were off the Saturdays before and after.
2005 - Played Miami at home on Monday, September 5th, and the Citadel at home the following Saturday. FSU 62 - Citadel 10. Would it have been so close on proper rest? Sarcasm.
2004 - Played a Friday night game at Miami due to Hurricane Francis. Game was originally scheduled for Monday, September 6th. Next game was September 18th at home against UAB, so either way they would have still had plenty of rest.
2004 - Played Duke at home on Saturday, November 6th, before traveling to Raleigh for a Thursday night game at NC State on five days rest.
2002 - Played Duke at home on Saturday, September 21st, before traveling to play a non-conference game at Louisville on Thursday, September 26th, on five days rest, resulting in a loss. Returned home for a second consecutive Thursday night game against Clemson
1998 - Played Monday, August 31st, against Texas A&M at Giants Stadium in New Jersey, but did not play the following Saturday.
1996 - Played a Thursday night game at NC State on September 19th, 1996, but did not play the Saturdays before or after.
1995 - Played a Thursday night game at Virginia on November 2nd, which was a loss, but did not play the Saturdays before or after.
Rather than improve the football side of the conference in order to generate more interest in the conference, which would lead to higher viewership and attendance, which in turn leads to better tv deals and bowl tie-ins, the ACC has found it easier to simply break out it's flagship, marquee program for the ol' dog and pony show to gain many viewers and high ratings on Labor Day Mondays, and Thursday evenings when there's no other games on. The ACC, being the premier academic BCS AQ conference, has never hesitated to jump at the opportunity to schedule the Seminoles on a Monday or Thursday game with little to no concern toward the players' health or academics, as they have done so seventeen times: eleven Thursday games, and six Monday games including the Friday night game that was originally scheduled for a Monday, but postponed due to Hurricane Francis in 2004. Of these seventeen Monday and Thursday (and one Friday!) games, nine of them required the players to play two games in five days. Of these nine occasions, only in three times did it result in a loss, but it resulted in some very sloppy play, and some very close calls in several other games, some of which were to far inferior teams, such as Jacksonville State, UAB, and Troy.
While there were several factors involved in Florida State's decline (Richt leaving, Jeff Bowden's promotion to OC, Bobby's aging), it appears the scheduling of Monday and Thursday night games may have played a factor as well. From 1992 through 2001, Florida State was scheduled for only three Monday or Thursday night games. During this time they finished with 10 wins in nine of these ten seasons, and played in nine BCS bowls (or what would soon become BCS bowls), five of which were the National Title Game. Since 2002, over ten seasons, Florida State has been scheduled for fourteen Monday or Thursday night games, including the nine occasions where it required student athletes to play two game within five days. Also, during this time, Florida State has had two 10-win seasons out of ten seasons, and appeared in three BCS bowl games. I'm not saying the scheduling of Monday and Thursday night games are the reason for the decline, but I am saying they haven't been helping.
The scheduling around Florida State's non-conference schedule has also been a problem. I believe the questions were posed in an article by Bud Elliot whether the ACC wants or cares about it's members beating the opposition from other conferences. It was pointed out that Florida State, Clemson, and Georgia Tech have all been continuously shafted with important conference games the week before each of their respective SEC rivals, while the SEC rivals have taken their bye, or played a cupcake the week before. Granted, Florida State hasn't always given the ACC much to work with in some years by scheduling two or three tough non-conference opponents.
2011 - Florida State got to enjoy the week before playing away at their biggest rival by preparing for and playing an important conference game against cross-divisional Virginia. Meanwhile, the Gators spent their week before the Seminoles by preparing for and playing.......Furman at the Swamp.
2011 - While playing a huge non-conference opponent on a national scale with all eyes on the ACC and Big 12, the Seminoles got to spend all their effort preparing for #1 Oklahoma, while their most important divisional game was scheduled for the following week at Clemson. In all fairness, Clemson was put in the same boat by being sandwiched between reigning National Champion Auburn, and Virginia Tech. Did the ACC even WANT two of it's better programs to beat these non-conference opponents?
2010 - Florida State spent the week before the Florida game prepping for and playing an important divisional game @ Maryland, while Florida's focus was Appalachian State in the Swamp.
2009 - Florida State had Maryland at home the week before Florida, while the Gators had Florida International in the Swamp.
2008 - Florida State played @ Maryland the week before Florida while the Gators had The Citadel in the Swamp.
2007 - Florida State plays Maryland at home the week before going to Gainesville, while the Gators warm up with Florida Atlantic.
2002 - November 23rd, Florida State plays a conference game at NC State, getting a loss the week before the Florida game. The Gators, on the other hand are enjoying a bye.
This is more of a recent trend. The ACC used to do better and schedule a bye before the Florida game, or in some years they scheduled the obligatory Thursday night game against a divisional opponent nine days before the Florida game, which is at least a little better, giving nine days to prep.
These scheduling woes are not the cause of the down-slide in recent years. The best team in the country, a true National Champion, should be able to navigate these schedules. The hard truth, as we all know by now, is the Seminoles haven't been National Champion caliber in a little while. However, for a good team, who has done a lot for the ACC, and brought a lot to the ACC, and is improving, and hoping to get back to that top tier, wouldn't it be wise to stop stacking things against them? Perhaps the end of the losses and sluggish performances due to five-day turnarounds would be all that is needed to boost enough confidence, and build enough momentum to get back to the national scene.
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The schedule this year
I remember thinking about making a FanPost suggesting we run a contest where everyone post the worst schedule they can for 2012 and then closest guess, when they schedules are released, wins a prize. Or bragging rights.
Dan Patrick: "Is Ponder a good name for a quarterback?"
Christian Ponder: "Why? Because you say I overthink things? is that what you’re trying to imply? As crazy as it sounds, my mom’s maiden name is actually SuperBowlWinner. Isn’t that crazy?"
DP: "Now is that hyphenated?"
CP7: "No, it’s all one word."
Another thing that is often overlooked
is that 13 of these games were on the road. Every team in the ACC deals with this Thursday night garbage, but nobody has to deal with it exclusively on the road like FSU does. I understand that having classes in our stadium prevents us from hosting a game during a weeknight. Therefore we should only be required to play one Thursday night game every two years. Instead of scheduling us a home Thursday game, compensate by giving us a year off of them.
I don't mind them too much
IF they are preceded by a bye week. And it gives us a couple extra prep days before the next opponent (after the Thurs. game).
Good call Bob. I don't believe I emphasized that so many were on the road.
And I completely forgot to mention classes in the stadium……
Personally, I believe the Thursday night games should make their rounds to all ACC teams, instead of FSU always being the go-to program. Granted the ACC knows they don’t have much of a football conference, and that people won’t tune in to most of the other teams, but sure, I’d settle for the biennial Thursday night game rather than every year, or a Monday and Thursday night game in a year.
Back-to-back state champions - I'll take it.
didnt see it, had to be done
"I guess they have a reputation of being more of a tricky team and not being tough. You hit ‘em in the mouth, and they don’t like it. Other teams that have beat them just hit them in the mouth, so that’s what we started out with.’’ - Nick Moody
by nole07 on Jan 20, 2012 10:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I was trying to rec this, but I think it might have flagged it. If so, I apologize. Wasn't trying to flag.
Back-to-back state champions - I'll take it.
by Chris Harrison on Jan 22, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent subject Chris.
There are a bunch of things that “Will”, jam a teams timeline, for readiness. How the coaches and the players deal with these things, WILL DETERMINE if they are ready to be champions or not!
This is Les Miles strongest personal valuable asset. imo. His teams are usually prepared.
For him, that word, "prepared’, means alot. If it is just 2 days…so be it.
This is up to the coaches. If the ACC wants the same level of respect as the SEC, they need to step-up, be prepared, and whup the SEC guys every time they face one.
I think we may have suffered a bullet in some seasons
but not dodged the consequences in others.
Dogs bark in the night but the caravan moves on.
Complaining about scheduling?
I think this shows just how low our program fell below expectations during the lost decade. Are we really sitting here complaining about a Thursday night game against a team like NC State as well as having to play Maryland the week before Florida? Come on people. If we are the same university that dominated in the 90’s and are looking to return to that national spotlight, why can’t we handle a couple of challenging situations?
LSU had to play on a Thursday night and a Friday night this season in addition to playing teams like Oregon, West Virginia, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia and even Florida.
UF had to play Bama, LSU, Auburn and UGA in 4 consecutive games.
And yet we’re complaining about having to get off our butts to travel somewhere on a Thursday night or play 2 difficult opponents back-to-back weeks? Come on guys.
FSU is best ACC property. ACC needs to make sure it’s not screwing its asset.
The 90s team is never coming back, because those ACC teams from the 90s are never coming back.
I thought the triangle schools were the ACC's best asset
… if not its ONLY asset.
Back when the Big 12 was on the verge of collapse, I saw a Duke fan on a Texas board talk about how it wasn’t a big deal if we left because we could be easily replaced. Seriously.
"Duke fan on a Texas board talk"
There is your issue. Duke basketball makes money but football money >> basketball money.
Kentucky football makes more than Kentucky basketball. FSU brings the ACC money and viewers (check FSUs ratings on broadcasted games).
It is it probable that the ACC already knows that FSU will give it its most likely “positive” outcome on a Thursday night. Which is a nationally televised event. That is how a Conference begins its first steps back to dominance.
Right now the SEC seems to be "THE " conference.
2nd law of thermo-dynamic…..All things must end…:)
But when that nationally televised event
Is a weary team on 5 days rest playing an ugly game against an inferior opponent, it only makes the conference’s best team (and by extension, the entire conference look bad). Perception matters, especially in recruiting, which is where a conference can really improve itself.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 21, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
That was my point.
The ACC is aware. So is ESPN. It seemed to me that the matchups have improved over past years. That is just one man’s empirical occular perception.
I bet we get a Thursday night game vs. NC State this year.
I just hope we get a bye week before and not a short week.
12 out of 20 isnt a couple. Our schedule this year made a huge difference.
i still hntdeer and liv4noles.
by NOLEcasterWX on Jan 21, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
LSU's schedule was beastly and they handled it, no argument here
Though them playing a schedule anywhere near that challenging is an aberration. They typically play 7-8 home games and load up on patsies out of conference.
But to bring up a stretch of UF games in which they went 0-4 only proves the point that you are arguing against. If you saw the latter two games, Auburn won because UF forgot how to catch punts. UGA won after a pretty impressive second half collapse where UF forgot that you’re supposed to tackle the ball carrier. I don’t think that either of these games are lost if they weren’t in the midst of such a brutal run. UF was clearly the better team against Auburn, and at the very least proved themselves capable of beating UGA.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 21, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Schedule
It’s funny were complaining about our football schedule, when FSU was built off the motto any place, anytime, any team. We should have enough depth, experience, and overall talent to make it though a tough schedule. A harder schedule tests’ a team focus, I wonder will have that? Have we finally matured as a program? Can we block? That’s all it comes down too next year.
by Sam.Noles.4.Life on Jan 22, 2012 8:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
ACC Championship Game
From the ACC’s perspective, they should be trying to schedule games at the end of the season against divisional rivals to build excitement about the ACCCG. That is more important to them than allowing an easy non-conference game before we play UF. We have nothing to complain about UVA before UF in 2011.
I see where your going....
But I still don’t agree.
Because of where some ACC schools are located and are basically hybrid-SEC schools(Us and Clemson), this gives our conference the chance that no other conference has, an ability to consistently play SEC teams.
If the ACC wants to improve its image, it has to compete with the SEC. And that has to be done head-to-head with FSU, Clemson, and Ga Tech against their SEC in-state rivals. But that is too much information for Swofford to handle.
If Satan had a son, it would be John Swofford.
To be the best, you gotta beat the best
FSU/Clemson/GT have to consistently beat UF/USCe/UGA.
I can only see 1/3 consistently happening next 3-4 years.
But ACC should schedule it so that the ACC schools have cupcakes/weak conference opponents before important rivalry games, especially vs SEC.
I could see us and Clemson beating the SEC rivals consistently
USCe has had a decent run, but Clemson has owned that rivalry historically. Plus they are recruiting at a level that is pretty much on par with what USCe is doing. No reason they can’t at least spilt the next 4 years.
Another way to go about boosting the wins against the SEC would be including Louisville in any future expansion. Any dedication to football at all on the part of Louisville should enable them to smash Kentucky on a regular basis.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 25, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
I'd settle
For a dispensation that allows us to have sun belt officials for our games. ACC officials are obviously overtaxed and lack proper ball placement techniques. They also don’t appear to be able to throw flags when our DEs are getting undressed in full view of cameras and entire stadium attendance. Somehow, ACC officials possess ‘Ray Charles’ type eyesight. They also are uncertain about the rules when the Noles pay and somehow pointing is the new fair catch signal. Guess the entire nation missed the memo on that one.
I think the ACC refs were told to screw us, and the schedule was intentionally made the way it was in 2011
because we refused to play a monday night opener vs UM
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 22, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone have record of the crews by game?
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 22, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Scheduling, maybe
But the refs have been screwing us since we joined the conference. I wonder how many of them are from North Carolina and just got sick of watching FSU hammer their favorite team.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 22, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Not as blatantly. This year was a clear middle finger from the refs in like what, 4 of 8 games?
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 23, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not denying that
I just doubt that the officials themselves really cared one way or another when we played Miami, and I have a hard time believing that conference representatives directed them to screw us over in retaliation.
Seems much more likely that they’re a bunch of barely competent Tobacco Road homers who, whether consciously or not, call the games in a way that favors the traditional ACC schools (up until the game with us, Miami was getting shafted pretty regularly as well).
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
its either incompetence or cheating
and incompetence shouldn’t, in theory, favor only one side consistantly
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 26, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
It's both
I just don’t think the cheating is at a conscious level.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 26, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Rewatch the UM game
and tell me that you still believe that
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 28, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know what I am saying?
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
by stevegrizzle on Jan 31, 2012 4:11 AM EST up reply actions
Nice post: agree we get the short end
But think you got the 2007 NC State & WF games mixed up? Don’t believe we’ve hosted a Thursday night game…
by FullTimeNole on Jan 22, 2012 7:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Last one we hosted was Louisville in 2002
Had to cancel school for the day because we have classes in the stadium. The school caught so much heat for doing so that we haven’t hosted one since.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 22, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Was that when we lost in the mud?
I remember not being very excited about Thursday night games or precipitation after that one.
by FullTimeNole on Jan 22, 2012 10:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good catch. Fixed.
I really don’t know why I typed, “came home to play Wake Forest.” Guess I was looking at too many dates. I remember that game vividly as it was the first game that I had gotten to watch on tv state-side since 2005. I had just gotten home from the desert, and watched it at Ft. McCoy, Wisconsin. That was the end of the brief five minutes that I actually believed, “Hey! Xavier Lee is the answer to our prayers and exactly what the team needed!” I was at the Miami game the next week, and wanted to jump off a bridge for believing that.
Glad to see so many people are actually reading it through. It took awhile. Thanks for the correction.
Back-to-back state champions - I'll take it.
by Chris Harrison on Jan 22, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
No problemo, that's alot of data to keep up with.
Ah yes, when X Lee couldn’t get the ground to hold on to the ball, even after 3 attempts…
by FullTimeNole on Jan 22, 2012 10:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
From a non-FSU perspective
I can sympathize with the second issue you talked about. That is scheduling an important conference game the game before or after a key non conference game. For example OU and CU this year.
As for the first point, scheduling Monday and Thursday games, I have less sympathy. All the top half of the ACC teams get those games. And yes it sucks when you have only five days. My thing though is as long as the other team only has five days its fair. So I have less sympathy for you on that point.
It's a completely different challenge though
when you are ALWAYS the road team in those situations. Sure the other teams play short weeks, but they get half of those games at home. Every opponent that we have faced on Thursday since 2002 has had homefield advantage. Make NC State/Clemson/whoever else come here on 5 days rest for a change. FSU can start classes a day early so that school can be cancelled that Thursday without anyone complaining.
by BobLoblaw113 on Jan 25, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Bet the House
on us getting NC State or VT (or maybe even both!) on the road on Thursday this year. As I have said before, we will lose both of those games and either WV or USF to go 9-3. Our ability to go to the ACCCG will be if Clemson loses another game besides against us.
Thursday in Blacksburg would be an epic fail.
Thursday night in Blacksburg would be a terrible decision! Not only does it give VaTech a huge advantage, it makes it more difficult for those of us in DC to make the game.
I don’t see losses to NC State (even on Thursday) or USF. Just not going to happen next year.
by Renegade_Rider on Jan 28, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
VT FSU will be a sat game
You don’t put premium games on thursday night. Thursday night games have no other football competition so you just have to put a good enough game to get an audiance of college football fans.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
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