Report: West Virginia Looking To Back Out Of 2012 Game At Florida State
by Bud Elliott on Jan 5, 2012 1:44 PM EST
in FSU Football
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West Virginia is scheduled to play Florida State on September 8th in Doak Cambell Stadium next season. But according to Jim Lamar of the Tallahassee Democrat, that might not happen:
"Florida State athletics director Randy Spetman told the Democrat on Thursday that West Virginia officials have contacted FSU about the possibility of cancelling the game because of conference realignment. The Mountaineers are trying to make their switch to the Big 12 in time for this fall, and if they do, they might have to buy their way out of the FSU deal because of scheduling conflicts."
Tomahawk Nation had previously reported that many inside the FSU program were not keen on playing the game.
The game was originally a result of a settlement as the ACC raided the Big East of Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College in 2004. It's unknown how West Virginia's leaving the Big East would impact the settlement.
And for good reason. The BCS system does not reward strong scheduling teams. A prime example is Virginia Tech, which started with a 4-0 record against a non-conference slate of Appalachian State, East Carolina, Arkansas State and Marshall, before finishing 7-2 down the stretch. That performance earned Virginia Tech a bid to the Sugar Bowl.
In 2012, Florida State is already playing Florida, at Virginia Tech, Clemson, at South Florida, at North Carolina State, at Miami, Boston College, at Maryland and Wake Forest. Those nine schools have combined for 40 bowl appearances over the last five years, and are plenty enough schedule strength for Florida State to make a BCS bowl as an at-large bid, should the 'Noles fail to win the ACC.
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Last time a BCS team backed out of a game against FSU (Auburn)
….We won a National Championship.
Jus’ sayin’.
GO NOLES!
FEAR THE SPEAR!
>>>--------,,,-----/>
Saved some money
Would have cost us if we had initiated backing out and finding a new opponent.
What are you glorifying with your life?
It goes to an as-yet unnamed rent-a-patsy football program that we'll play in September
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
they might have been less likely to bother if the home/home started on their side
Since even if they can’t get out of the Big East in 2012, they likely still will in 2013 so this game at FSU will have no profit to them.
Am I correct, Jimbo understands scheduling completely, yes?
That is, we are never going to pull this foolishness again?
Yes, he gets it. Does Spetman? I have my doubts.
Follow @TomahawkNation
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But Jimbo should have some pull, yes?
Not that I EVER want him to have power a la BB, but still.
He does, but we're still cycling through the bad OOC scheduling deals that Bobby agreed to
And WVU is the biggest one left over from the Bowden years.
If we can get out of it scot-free, the way ahead looks pretty clear for Jimbo to really make his own scheduling destiny.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Spetman/Fisher...
…had nothing to do with WVa. This was scheduled under Hart and Bowden. Fisher has repeatedly said he wants cupcakes for OOC contests, because there is no reward for tough OOC games, if you lose 1.
GO NOLES!
FEAR THE SPEAR!
>>>--------,,,-----/>
by fsutampaguy on Jan 6, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Like I posted in another thread...
The Seminole ticket office hasn’t gotten the memo:
While I think it would be fun to see the game, I understand if both parties back out due to the system in place.
However, it is bad marketing to promote the game and then have it canceled/cancel it.
If the other side cancels I don't see why it would be on us
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
I agree with Bud 100% as scheduling 3 non conference games against BCS teams is asinine.
I do think that the ACC dropped the ball by passing on West Virginia as a potential conference member as WV would have improved the football culture of the ACC with its loyal fan base, regular BCS game appearances (the ACC needs to get 2 BCS teams more often), recent Final 4, etc.
WVU's academics are terrible
That is why WVU was rejected by both the ACC and SEC. WVU makes it living off of taking players who are much bigger academic risks than other schools can afford to take. We’ll see how well it does once it goes to the Big 12.
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 5, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I agree the academics are terrible. I think that it is stupid to pass on a school for conference membership that geographically makes sense, is regularly ranked in football, travels fans, has hosted College GameDay in the past year and has made a Final 4 recently.
I may not know too much about it,
but I would think there would be zero chance that academic instituions like Duke, North Carolina, Wake Forest and Virigina would ever allow West Virginia into the club.
IMHO
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!!!
They got Syracuse and Pittsburgh and think that they pulled off something spectacular.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
actually, I was referring originally to the academic aspects of West
Virginia getting into a conference with the schools I mentioned.
Anyway, putting Syracuse and Pittsburgh in the conference, while not a “WOW” move in football terms, may make a lot of sense from a business perspective, as it sets up the dominant college football conference on the Eastern Seaboard. The ACC would own multiple VERY dense markets, which could me high revenue, and FSU would have an easier path to the title (than any SEC team).
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!!!
I'd be surprised if the Pitt/Syracuse move brought extra money to the ACC
Northern schools don’t care about football. They also don’t particularly travel well. I don’t see how it will bring the conference more money in football but it might bump it up a bit in basketball.
you are not factoring in the number of television sets in each
conference’s footprint. Television drives the bus. Certainly, the status of the SEC is a huge selling point for that conference that no one can touch. However, the botttom-line number of televsion sets the ACC can present to the networks is a strong selling point for our conference.
Anyway, my point here is, the ACC is making some good defensive moves to ensure the conference is “at the table” in the future.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!!!
Agree with the "at the table" argument
From my experience most college footbal watchers in the north are transplants. I’m just not sure that Pitt and Syracuse bring enough TV sets to the table to significantly counteract the money those schools take out of the ACC pot. Sure there are more people in Pittsburgh and Syracuse than Clemson but I would bet there are a higher percentage of people in Clemson that are willing to watch ACC football games, which is what will likely drive network bargaining.
This. Strictly to improve Basketball...
while trying to assure a spot at the Super Conference Dinner Table.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
When the ACC expanded to get Boston College and the “Boston tv market” they thought they were getting a homerun. However, many times the 3:30 ACC game on ABC isn’t shown in the Boston market. What is the point of having good tv markets if no one follows the team that is in it? BC is not above the Patriots, Celtics, Red Sox, Bruins, etc.
The SEC got a good tv contract despite having the Mississippi (2 teams), Alabama (2 teams) and Arkansas tv markets. People will tune into a good product on the field – that is why the ACC failed when they passed on West Virginia.
I doubt anyone in the ACC office thought Boston COllege was a HR
Here are the list of HR schools that moved conferences since 1990. FSU, Miami, Penn St, Nebraska, and Texas*. The ACC landed 2 Home Runs in that time with only the Big Ten matching it. Even if you want to count TAM for some reason that is still 2 for the ACC 1 for the SEC.
The ACC also put itself in a very good position to land ND if they ever decide to join a conference. They were in play to land Texas. Yeah this is a conference that does not think about football.
Back to BC for a moment. This is still a good move. It locks up the eastern seaboard for the ACC, put the ACC in better position to land ND, and if Boston ever decides to care about college football gives them the only big boy team in the area.
*If you consider the Big 12 to be the Big 8 with 4 new additions.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Always good to hear your take on the Conferences!
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
There are plenty of things to complain about in the ACC
that they don’t make football moves is just not one of them. Every move they have made since 1990 has been a pro football move. FSU and Miami no question football moves. BC was a football move since they are most known for Doug Flutie and a Hail mary. Va Tech (granted not first choice) was a football move. Keeping the CCG in Florida way past the time it should have moved was a football move. Even Cuse and Pitt were football moves.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
As a whole,
I think the moves they made to snag Cuse and Pitt were as good as anyone could possibly expect, given the circumstances the ACC found itself in.
As I’ve said on a different thread, it seems to me that the ACC is the only viable destination for ND at this point. If the expansion bug hits all of the other major conferences, I think ND would throw their marbles in with the ACC (at least to some extent) and then the ACC would only need to pull one more lukewarm former BE team to solidify the conference’s position at or near the top of college athletics.
Am I the meanest? Am I the prettiest? Am I the baddest mofo low down around this town? Well who am I? Who am I?
I can't hear you..
by STAquinasNole on Jan 5, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Open question-Who's your candidate for a #16 should ND jump on board?
My possibilities: Rutgers or Cinci, with Rutgers having the edge due to the nearby NYC TV market.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
With nD in hand it doesn't matter
Use and ND are the only two schools with real fanbases up north.
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 5, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Rutgers or UConn are my choices
Rutgres, ND and the rest of the ACC gives you a chance at the NYC basic cable tier for any future network. UConn is the better Atheletic department. Cinicy has no real chance their academics are too bad.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
This
WVU will not be able to take the players they currently take in the ACC or the Big 12. They will be taking a step back not forward most likely on the field.
Also talk about a recently bias WVU, Pitt and Cuse are basically the same historic team. All have similar games won, all have similar winning percentage but Pitt and Cuse have Hesiman winners and National Titles to go along. Pitt and Cuse are not up to their normal historical standards but its not for a lack of caring but because of football moves that back fired. You hire a recent 2 time SB winning DC whose most recent job is Texas DC you expect the move to be a top 10 move not one that kills the program. You hire a former SB winning DC and NFL HC you don’t expect to live in mediocracy for years.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
If WVU bolts and backs out of the series
Can the Big East force us to still play a home and home with another BE conference member>
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 5, 2012 1:57 PM EST reply actions
Though I'd like a real cupcake better.
Schedule for a 2012 BCS NCG appearance!
How about UConn?
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
We already are playing a Big East team next year
South Florida in Tampa. How many do we have to play?
by dwhitman32 on Jan 5, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Monopoly!
If I could only get Boardwalk AND Park Place…
by FSUActuary on Jan 5, 2012 3:57 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
as many as possible, the conference sucks
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
True
But, they did better this year in bowl games.
FSU back-2-back state champs!! 52-14
by CashvilleNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
The Big East usually does well in bowl games
But that’s in large part because of who they play. They have some miserable tie-ins but those tie-ins result in favorable matchups……Cincinnati (co-Big East champ) played SEC #9 Vandy. Rutgers (Big East #4) played Big XII #8 Iowa State. And their other conference co-champ (Louisville), lost to ACC #7 NC State.
so is this highly probable?
what do you think the chances of it happening are?
Please be true...
I literally booked a room at Hotel Duval earlier this morning for WVU weekend. On standby til decision is made.
Speaking of schedules
When will the ACC announce the 2012 schedule? I’m looking forward to playing @VT, Clemson, @ Miami, and UF all in a row to finish the season
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 5, 2012 2:02 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Good Question
I’ve asked Bud and the Democrat writers, but no one knows. SEC and Pac12 have theirs out, but it will be typical ACC if the don’t release till March or April. Guess they could be waiting to see what happens with WVU/Big 12. If they get out, I imagine Pitt and Syracuse could as well.
It is usually out around Super Bowl week. I was told by someone who knows that it should be out around that time again this year.
And as far as Pitt/Cuse,the ACC is operating under the assumption that Pitt and Cuse are not coming. At this time, regardless of what happens with WVU, there is almost no chance those two defect for 2012. They will likely start conference play in 2013.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 5, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
They already released it
Highlights:
We play CU @ home, followed by @ NCSt….on the same day.
We play VT at 6:00 AM on a Tuesday.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Someone in the ACC building is reading this
and nodding their head slowly
The NCST game is actually in death valley.
8 straight quarters of football.
#truestoryIjustmadeup
Pursue some path, however narrow and crooked, in which you can walk with love and reverence.
Henry David Thoreau
by slumgullion on Jan 5, 2012 3:07 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
The doubleheader was apparently in response to FSU games complaint about the travel pains involved in attending home games...
The rationale behind that the Tuesday morning game was, “We will be the only game on TV at the time, so there will not be any competion in the ratings”.
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
At least
we don’t have to play Clemson and VaTech at the same time, like I hear they were originally planning.
Now THAT'S how to troll hard in the paint-rec'd
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
I actually
would like to see the game be played. I am tired of hearing how terrible the ACC is why not go on a run and make a statement by playing anyone. I understand that it is a risk but it would be a huge game and another platform to show America that the ACC (particularly FSU is not terrible).
I agree
And I think a good platform to show that would be a BCS bowl after FSU beats up on crappy schools and is healthy and ready to play.
by FSUKook on Jan 5, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's usually where people make their decisions
It’s not going to be FSU alone that makes the BCS look good. It wouldn’t hurt if the conference champion won a BCS game but the conference needs to do better in bowls from top to bottom.
why
so we get the amount of respect the ACC gives us. I would much rather play good teams and make it to a bowl game that includes a SEC, or Big 12 team then play a Big East team at the end of the year. You can get injured against anyone any week.
You can play crappy teams and play a team from the SEC, Big 12, Big Ten in a bowl game
See: Virginia Tech.
That is
because for some crazy reason they got a bcs bid which they didn’t deserve. If we win the ACC we would play the Big East but you load your schedule more likely to get to a better bowl game.
BCS games aren’t a merit based system. The bowls are businesses.
by Type 38 on Jan 5, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think this is a common misconception
Outside of the NC game bowls are just looking to make money. They are forced to a certain degree to take teams that are ranked highly in the BCS but will take whatever at large team they think will make them the most money.
Why did they not deserve it?
They were ranked #11. They were ranked that high because they won games. Against crap teams.
What if we played FAU instead of Oklahoma this year? Think Manuel stays healthy going into conference play and the toughest conference game the following week? We would be celebrating back to back 10 win seasons which would do a lot for $ donations and season ticket sales going into next year.
Except, of course, Florida isn't a cupcake
Even if their former OC was promised that in the job interview.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 2:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 10 recs
Cupckaes on the schedule? I'm in!- CW
I am what time, circumstance, history, have made of me, certainly, but I am also, much more than that.- James Baldwin
DERPA DE DERP DE DERP DE DOOO
That fact that I'm paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't a conspiracy against us
yeah
because we didn’t win…We win that game who knows what happens. No game we lose is going to help.
Then why schedule games you might lose?
by FSUKook on Jan 5, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd for breathtaking logic
Inescapable truth.
What are you glorifying with your life?
by ricobert1 on Jan 5, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Why play the game?
It is football I want to see good football games that might prepare us for the upcoming season. I don’t want to see College of Charleston or Richmond come to town.
I want to see FSU beat the #2 team
In the Champ game. When FSU is ranked #1. That’s as good of football as you can ask for.
^
Proof you don’t get it.
Follow @RobbedbyJT
by Marmaduke1 on Jan 5, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If you don't lose, and you are in a major conference-and we are-you are in the BCSCG. End of story.
If we win, we’re in. ESPN and the pollsters will see to that.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
If FSU plays a crappy schedule and gets in the NC
They are much more likely to get blown out by a much better team. See Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc.
You are proving my point
If we play a poor non-conference schedule and win the ACC and go to the NC game- most likely we wouldn’t be the better team. LSU is proving this year that the key to winning an NC is NOT a crappy schedule.
Playing the hardest schedule dosen't make you a better team
Recuriting, Coaching, and playing an easy schedule to keep your starters fresh and healthy make you a better team.
by FSUKook on Jan 5, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Exception
LSU is a monster team and an exception to the rule. Look at UF’s 2 championships, Bama’s, Auburn’s.
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam. Another issue with hard scheduling is what we dealt with this year. You play great OOC teams like OU, LSU and your team gets beat up and injured. Ruining your season.
Follow @RobbedbyJT
Losing to WF and UVA
Ruined our season. UF and LSU and Bama and Auburn can afford not to play great OOC because there conference is great, ours is terrible. Until we are in the SEC we have to play good teams OOC
by slash034 on Jan 5, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The strength of schedule component of the BCS is very small
It was reduced after we went to the NC in 2000 instead of Miami. The only way it would help us is in the human polls and FSU has enough brand recognition (by the fact that FSU is usually ranked higher than it should be) to not have to worry about that.
Additional note: SOS was eliminated from the BCS altogether after the 2003 season
Both USC and the AP raised hell that Oklahoma was able to lose their CCG and still make it into the BCSCG over them while they went undefeated in the cupcake-filled wonderland that was the PAC-10.
The BCS changed their formula in the offseason, dropped the AP at their request, and every BCSCG winner since then has scheduled a slate full of OOC cupcakes.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
USC lost to Cal in 2003 (all of USC, OU and LSU had 1 loss)
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
Explain Virginia Tech, then.
Explain teams like Boise, TCU, and Houston reaching top 5 despite playing literally no one.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Would we have lost to Clemson & Wake if EJ was full strength?
And the WR’s were healthy?
Follow @RobbedbyJT
You're wrong
those SEC teams always face a team not from the SEC who also don’t play tough schedules.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
What happens when they lose to Bama?
They are the underdog. Then what does it prove? Schedule means less than just being better than the other team. Playing a ridiculous non-conf doesn’t make you better than someone who doesn’t. Being better makes you better.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
LSU won a NC this year?
Formerly known as 'stilts'
by BenDNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
According to the AP, yes.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
If you want to see good football teams come to town that's fine
Don’t complain about the record at the end of the season though.
Note: I’m not saying you are complaining about the record but noting that even winning against a BCS team will cause more problems than winning against a FBS team since you need to devote more practice time and have starters play longer in the BCS games.
by evenflow58 on Jan 5, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We aren't scheduling games to suit you though
We should be scheduling games to win titles.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
I want to see FSU play, period.
If it’s a competitive game, super. If it’s 49-0 over Richmond, super.
I go to Doak to watch FSU, not the opponent. I turn on the TV to watch FSU, not the opponent.
Well I agree
I’d like to see it played too, but that only makes two of us. FSU’s big reward next year if we win the conference will be a matchup with the winner of the Big East, so I’d like to see the game against WVU because I doubt the Bowl game will be much to watch if that happens. While we might be challenged against Clemson, that win’s already diminished because of last night. I don’t think Florida will peak for another two years. Miami is just not good. VT will be the only real test – especially in the conference.
But if we win our conference while going undefeated, we go to the NCG, and that's a fact.
We can, in fact, choose when we play our BCS games. We can either play them in September, or we can play them in January. Nearly a full decade of experience shows that we can’t have both.
We tried your preferred scenario this year and played our BCS game in September. Were you satisfied with the result? You ought to be, because this kind of season is the reasonable expected outcome when you schedule your BCS games in September.
I’d rather play our BCS games when they matter-in early January. The trade-off is that we’ll have to fill our September schedule with cupcakes to get to a January BCS game, but that’s an acceptable tradeoff to me.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Well
I will admit that going to Clemson immediately after the Oklahoma game was a near impossible task. The fact of the matter is though, we just were not good enough this year. The results had more to do with that than the schedule.
Sometimes the schedule makes the results
How do you know we weren’t good enough? Is it because we lost? There are reasons for losing other than us simply not being good enough.
Take injuries for example: they surely kept us from being the best team we could have been. At least 75% of our losses can be explained by our team being crippled by injuries sustained in the Oklahoma game. And those injuries could have been avoided had we chosen to play a cupcake instead of an elite non-conference team.
So the question isn’t “How good were we?” but “How good could we have been?”
I think it’s reasonable to assume that the outcomes of both the Clemson and Wake Forest games would have been different if we had our star QB, star CB and best route-running WR 100% healthy and ready to play. If we had EJ, Kenny Shaw and Greg Reid healthy for the Clemson game, I think we would have destroyed them. And judging by EJ’s hobbled performance against Wake, I think that a healthy FSU team would’ve beaten them too!
That’s two extra wins-both of them conference wins-that we pick up just from not being injured in the Oklahoma game.
With injuries out of the picture thanks to a rent-a-patsy instead of Oklahoma and those two extra conference wins-even if we still lay an egg against UVA, we’re still good enough to play in the ACCCG. And due to the way the BCS shook out this year, both of the teams in the ACCCG got BCS bowl bids.
Conclusion: If we could have been in the ACC Championship game this year, we would have been picked for a BCS bowl game, win or lose.
That’s the big goal: FSU. in a BCS bowl game. This year. And it could have been done, if only we didn’t put Oklahoma on our schedule!
I’ll say it again, just to let that sink in: If we didn’t schedule Oklahoma this year, we’d have gone to the BCS.
"My mistress is pooped, the reds have Oklahoma, and I'm going to bed."
-Hodge Podge, Bloom County
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. "
"In practice, there is."-Yogi Berra
Where did Addizao go?
Temple? Wouldn’t that be hilarious to watch him face FSU’s D again?
Change my mind again
Virgina Military Institute!
by FSUKook on Jan 5, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Throw in a bye week
that way our back ups don’t even risk injury
After last night, I believe they are looking at clemson
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Tell ya what
For a bargain price of only $500,000, FSU can schedule me. I will go out there and run for my life for 4 quarters. As long as the check clears first.
Dude. That $550k will barely pay for your medical expenses.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Secret weapon
Run away from Lonnie Pryor when I’m on Defense.
And never hike the ball on Offense. Can’t tackle me if I keep getting delay of game penalties.
Most of you are the same people who clamoring for FSU to go the SEC
Got an idea of what our schedule would be in the SEC? And you’re against playing West Virginia? I get the whole idea of if we play a crappy team = more wins. But I feel like a lot of you are more concerned about back-dooring our way into a BCS game than watching enjoyable football. I’d much rather make the drive from Tampa to Tally to watch us play WVa than College of Charleston.
by dwhitman32 on Jan 5, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I totally agree with you!
Yeah they say they don’t want to get hurt but they want to go to the SEC….Good Luck.
by slash034 on Jan 5, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really? Like LSU?
Oregon and WVa just won BCS games and LSU is still playing for a NC. If you are the best, you’re the best.
by dwhitman32 on Jan 5, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LSU's been one of the best for almost a decade
I’m all for us scheduling Oregon and West Va out of conference if we’ve won 2 BCS titles since 2003 and are a Top 10 team every year. But we’re a program that averages 5 losses a year since 2004. Let’s win an ACC title or two and finish in the Top 10 before we schedule like maniacs.
Yeah they also
play a great schedule in conference that prepares them to win NCs
Playing a tough schedule doesn't "prepare you to win NC's"
Recruiting heavily, having good coaching, S&C, facilities, etc. are important.
Playing the 2011 LSU gauntlet schedule isn’t what made them good.
So losing to ND in 93 prepared us to back into a national title?
I fail to see how.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Clamoring for the SEC is about the money and prestige.
playing a tougher schedule makes more sense if you’re at least getting paid for it. The one benefit the ACC offers is an easier path to the BCS. If FSU is going to be stuck in the ACC, they should at least take advantage of that benefit. We shouldn’t play an SEC calliber schedule until we are paid to do so.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 5, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Playing WVa doesn't make it an "SEC-caliber" schedule
by dwhitman32 on Jan 5, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It also doesn't bring much in the way of revenue or much strengthen FSU's case for a title game appearance
Playing WVa is lose/lose for FSU even if they win the game.
not by itself, but in conjunction with everyone else on the schedule, it does
I responded to your remark about people wanting to go to the SEC, which means a tougher schedule. My point is that the people who want the SEC realize the schedule will be tougher, but the added benefits ($$$$) surrounding the move make the jump worthwhile. You are proposing we make our base schedule harder without any substantial benefit, other than perhaps a GameDay appearance.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 5, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen UGA's 2012 schedule?
Because I think a pretty decent argument could be made that our 2012 schedule with WVU on it is tougher than their 2012 schedule in which they play Ole Miss and AU from the SEC west. VT away likely on a Thursday night is tougher than any game UGA plays plus they get 3 cupcakes.
by FSUAlum04 on Jan 5, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What about the drive from Tampa to Atlanta to watch us play in the Chick-Fil-A rather than the NC or the Orange Bowl?
You’re POV on this subject is selfish.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Wanting to play a reasonably entertaining OOC is selfish?
But insisting FSU play a weak non-conference schedule with hopes that just maybe 1 year in 10 in might help them sneak into a BCS bowl is not selfish? That’s ridiculous.
No, it is. You want championships or you want to watch an entertaining schedule. It’s one or the other.
>>---l>
Not for LSU this year.
Not for 1 loss team A that beats out 1 loss team B for a spot in the NC game because they are more highly regarded because they have better wins.
Team with better wins thia year was left out of the title game
That proves our point about OOC scheduling, thanks for bringing it up. Bama played aan easier schedule than OKST and they got in.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 3 recs
LSU is a 1 in 20 year at best abberation. And with the hard schedule you want, FSU would encounter that chance 1 in 20 years at best at well. And you saying we might make a BCS bowl one out of every 10 years with our schefule is ridiculous.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
Yes, you rooting for what is more entertaining to you over what is best for the program is selfish
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Being in the SEC allows u to lose a game and still win a title
That + more money makes the SEC desirable.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
False
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
How so?
See my above post – A loss to OU this year left us at what ranking? From that point on – all teams which were above us lost. And in addition we would have beaten a top 15 team in VT in the championship game.
We go 12-1 this year and we're still behind Bama
Guarantee it.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I don't know about that.
12-1 and with the only loss to OU? Much better than 12-1 and Iowa State.
And still not as good as 11-1 with only L to LSU
But (sticking with your assumption we win all other games) sub in Western Kentucky for OU and boom 13-0, see you boys in New orleans.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I really don't think voters wanted to see a rematch between Bama and LSU
So I think they would have voted us in. But we will never know.
I really don’t think voters wanted to see a rematch between Bama and LSU
So I think they would have voted us in. But we will never know.
Wrong… Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
OSU was #2 in the computers and so Voters are the reason there is a rematch.
Awesome!
So when you factor in that the poll removes the high and low ranking, they were #2 in 3/4 computers and had an average computer ranking of wait for it….. #2. Therefore they were #2 in the computer average and received a higher weight in the computers. I dont think you really need me to explain this, but if Bama was going to jump the #2 team in the BCS computers how where they going to do it? I’ll give you a hint (people that vote)
The BCS formula is 1 part Harris poll (voter) 1 part Coaches (voters) and 1 part BCS computer (non-voters)
The non-voting component that incorporates things like SOS ranked OSU as the number 2 team. The voters who don’t give a rats behind about things like SOS voted to have a replay. So go ahead and show me what part of this statement is factually incorrect.
OSU was #2 in the computers and so Voters are the reason there is a rematch.
I think if it was someone besides OSU they would have voted them in.
Someone with more street cred than OSU.
Its more likely that if
it wasn’t SEC they wouldn’t have voted them in. The name of the team mattered some but its SEC vs team and SEC right now has voters.
Agree with this
If it had been “Oklahoma”, they’d be playing LSU Monday.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
I’m not so sure. Ok St almost jumped bama and they had 1 horrible loss.
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Remember
We would have beat (and in good fashion IMO) a top 15 team the week before the decision (VT). That would have got us in…
Didn't help OKST to paste OU
the team that beat us in this little thought exercise.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree with THIS - Well said
I am up for easy scheduling – count me in for dropping WVU. But you are right – the SAME people who vie for an easy schedule want in to the SEC. Cant have your cake and eat it too in this case…
by LetsGoNoles on Jan 5, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But theres a difference.
In the ACC I want an easy schedule. For all the reasons listed here.
In the SEC I’d accept a harder schedule. Because in the SEC you can lose a game and still make it. (greater margin of error) and you get more money for being in the SEC.
I don't think losing 1 game would hurt us
If we ran the table after an OU loss, there is a very good possibility we could have been in the big show. Especially considering that if we did do this, we would have played and beat a top 15 VT team.
It MAY not hurt us in the ACC
It WILL not hurt us in the SEC
by FSUKook on Jan 5, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everything in life is about trade offs
We’re willing to trade our somewhat cushy conference schedule for additional money and prestige. No reason to make the schedule more difficult when there’s no money or prestige in it.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
SEC would be conference games
Recruiting prestige, more money for the school and if you do lose a conference game you have a good shot to still be in the NC race.
Bringing the desire to be in the SEC and scheduling are apples to oranges arguments.
LSU is a great team, but their schedule was really stupid this year and to have no major injuries playing games like that is VERY lucky.
Btw, Im not in favor of wanting to go to the SEC anyway……
Jesu Christo
Not this again. Hey 2009 Tomahawk Nation comment threads called, they’d like you to post your thoughts on the schedule there.
by AmplifiedJ on Jan 5, 2012 6:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
If we played in the Big 12... bring it out WVU
and bring it on OU and Texas and OSU.
If we played in the SEC, bring it on UGA and UF and occassionally Bama/LSU/Auburn. Also bring on that extra 10 million per year without crap officials.
How is it possible with the thousands of posts dedicated to showing people that tough scheduling does NO favors
Does it take to get people to realize it? Go with the old UF strategy, or the VT strategy.
Well on the flip side, it cost Oregon a spot in the NC
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 5, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
That simply isn't true
If Oregon doesn’t play LSU they still don’t make the NC game. The late loss against USC cost them the spot. One loss Alabama still gets in above one loss Oregon.
You're telling me
That an undefeated Oregon, presumably with a win over LSU, would get snubbed in favor of an Alabama team that didn’t its conference, let alone its own division? Keep in mind Oregon-Stanford.
by AmplifiedJ on Jan 5, 2012 6:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I may have worded that wrong I guess?
What I meant was if Oregon did not play LSU and still lost to USC that the title game would probably be LSU Oregon.
well its at least a toss-up, and Oregon is at least in the discussion
If you are saying I cannot definitively say they would be in, then you cannot say they would be out. And the point stands – without the loss, Oregon is in the conversation, which did not happen this year because of the loss to LSU. And I’m not sure what the “rematch factor” is.
by Mr. Tito Carlos on Jan 5, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think Oregon makes it
Oklahoma State missed by what, .0009 with a loss to Iowa State? USC was 10-2. Not a bad loss.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
What if OSU played a tougher OOC team and beat them?
Maybe that makes them .0010 higher in the BCS and they are playing on Monday instead of Alabama.
They already played a tougher schedule than Alabama and it didn't save them.
The Big XII has lost 4 OOC games as an entirety with Arkansas-Kansas State outstanding.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
All else being equal brands win out
OSU got hosed but we are talking about the second place team so I shed no tears.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
It wouldn’t make them that much higher.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
You don't get it.
It didn’t hurt them. But they would have still been #1 if they were undefeated and played Louisiana School for the Deaf Dumb and blind instead of WVU and Oregon.
If LSU has a road to the NC by going undefeated, no matter what, you’re only adding significant risk playing tough teams OOC. If you can get to the NC at 13-0 vs scrubs or get to the NC at 13-0 vs tough teams, which makes more sense and has less risk?
Do you think Oklahoma State wishes they had played a little tougher OOC?
If they beat a top 25 OOC team then it’s probably them and not Bama playing for the NC.
Why?
Chances are if Gundy had stumped for his team they would have been in. Strength of schedule is not factored into the BCS all that much. Why would they move up? I doubt voters think Okie St didn’t play a tough enough schedule.
It's not their schedule it's their conference.
Alabama vs. LSU is a statistical outlier. In any other year Oklahoma State would have played for the Championship.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
A little tougher OOC?
Why? They absolutely demolished the preseason #1, along with an handful of other top 25 teams in Big 12 play.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Just checked the BCS standings...
Two computers ranked OK State 3rd. What if both of those rank them 2nd? Maybe they sneak by Alabama in the standings? I’m not sure, I’m not a BCS expert.
But many years there are numerous one-loss teams fighting for the last NC spot. A better OOC helps a team make the case, especially from a lower BCS conference.
But computers also had the Big 12 as a better conference then the SEC.
And OK State ran through the best of them, just got blindsided by ISU.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
False
what else ya got?
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You saying "False" is not an a valid argument.
what else ya got?
How about you cite an example of a year where a team got into the title game because of their OOC schedule being better than the teams they were compared too
In 06 Michigan beat highly ranked ND but was held out in favor of UF who played no one OOC. In 08, once again UF played no one of any consequence OOC but was given a spot over a 1 loss team.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'll give you 08, but 06 was about avoiding the rematch
And like I said, I understand that there is a stastical advantage to playing a softer schedule. I just don’t think it’s strong enough statistical evidence that year after year we should play a soft schedule.
Do you wanna know why I play the pass line everytime instead of buying numbers?
Because long term I am.way more likely to achieve my goals (win money) than any other way. It’s like this. Think of seasons of football as a finite (yes, time goes on forever but odds are good football, especially FSU football, will) resource. You can spend your resources in the most economic way to achieve what should be your team’s optimum goal (I assume that is championships, as we are not BYU and therefore not in the business of spreading the faith or something of that nature, we’re here to win). The most economic way to earn championships in the most basic sense is to avoid losses. Our fixed costs are our conference schedule and UF. But the other parts of our season being spent on risky investments (OU, WVU, etc.) becomes to high risk low reward to achieve the ginal payment we wish to achieve.
I apologize, this started as a sinple succinct economic example and got out of hand because I’m on a phone and at work.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
i'm on your side...but
you are calling FSU no one … that makes me sad.. though it was true at the time.
"The worst kind of non-smokers are the ones that come up to you and cough. That's pretty f*^@ing cruel isn't it? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?"
- Bill Hicks (another dead hero)
by YouNoleIt on Jan 8, 2012 5:14 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
He's saying that a better OOC does not help in th BCS rankings.
BCS rankings are still based on polls, which are voted by humans, who are subjective. Those humans are basing their votes/opinions on won-loss record and conference affiliation, more so than OOC schedule.
It does not matter who Boise State plays OOC, they will never play for a NC until they join a major conference.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
You have to look at what formula those BCS computers use
Which we can’t do because the NCAA is apparently somebody will steal their system (?) Some of them go by margin of victory, others go by how good the offense or defense was. In all of them the SOS has been lessend. Either way here are the SOS ranking as done by the NCAA and Okie St was 3 spots above Alabama.
the point is that you actually have to get to the table first.
FSU has no business scheduling good BCS teams until they can prove to the best team in what is perceived nationally as a crappy football conference.
by FSUActuary on Jan 5, 2012 4:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Gundy wishes they hadn't lost to a 6-7 Iowa State team
They would be in the title game if they had lost to K-State or Baylor instead.
The LSU results this season are something of anamoly.
Playing OOC BCS schools Oregon (neutral site) and WVU (in Morgantown) is not smart scheduling.
Under the present system the best schedule for FSU is one consisting of eight ACC games (including Miami every year), UF (at home in alternate years), two FCS teams at home and a final home game against a “Sun Belt-like” squad. An FSU team that went 12-0 against that schedule, then won the ACC title game to go 13-0, would usually be at least in the conversation for the BCS national championship game.
Plus, certain years this scheduling strategy gives FSU the advantage of eight home games.
Absolutely. Looking back, 2011 will be looked at as the outlier.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
only 1 FCS school
as having 2 wins over FCS schools still only counts as “1 win” (can only count 1 win against FCS opponents towards your win total for the year).
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." Vince Lombardi
"We'll win games with talent, we'll win championships with character." Jimbo Fisher
I think they recognize two FCS wins now for bowl eligibility.
If not, substitute a directional school for one of the FCS teams. Just be careful which one you pick. Southern Illinois would be a better choice than Southern Mississippi most years.
You ever hear of the exception that proves the rule?
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
They may just be new.
Not their fault if they haven’t read all of the thousands of posts. Or they may just not want to change their mind. Which is fine. That’s why we are here. To talk about it.
I've been on the site for almost 2 years
I am a Bud-disciple on most things except this issue.
Yep.
If we are one the best teams let’s prove it against the other best teams. Let UF and Va Tech play those crappy OOC’s.
Even the best team can lose on a bad day
Look at Green Bay. Why risk it?
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 3:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Have you ever heard the term "Rather be right than rich"?
There are people who are so determined to win an argument that they do not care about the consequences.
They would much rather say “Well at least we played a tougher schedule” while enjoying the Chick-Fil-A Bowl, which is not so bad —and say “Virginia Tech/Boise State/FBSScoolThatGetsIT only got to play in the NAtional Championship because they played an easy schedule.” Hah. Really?
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. We can't present a different opinion? What is this, "1984"?
I understand the argument. I really do. I get it. But guess what, I just don’t agree. Since we are in one of the worst BCS conferences, I don’t see the problem with a challenging OOC. If we are one of the best 2 teams, then most likely we win that OOC game. And if we are a one loss teams vying for a spot in the NC against other one loss teams from better respected conferences, then the tougher OOC might actually help.
by dwhitman32 on Jan 5, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, to be fair, this has been debated before, and it's simply not a matter of opinion.
It’s a fact. Tougher scheduling makes you statistically less likely to sniff the crystal ball.
Out of curiosity, what statistical measures prove that?
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Now the curiosity is really rolling.
So, this statistical proof of historical outcome is derived from a simplified, off-the-top of your head, record predicting method? Very scientific. I was really hoping for statistical proof.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Off the top of MY head?
I could’ve sworn TN was the sight that preaches win/shares as one of the best ways to predict records and outcomes.
Would you agree that playing FAU, Akron, Chuck South, and Florida gives us a better chance at making the title than Oklahoma, West Virginia, USF, and Florida?
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Yes. Picking 40% here and 65% there is a guess.
It’s a predictor, not a historical statistical study. If we can look at historical SOS for teams that played in the last 5/6/7/whatever title games, that would be statistical ammo for this argument. I can’t find pre-bowl game SOS, but I thought maybe that’s what jm was referring to.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
And I'm afraid there's not much of a way to isolate that in a matter DKN would consider statistically significant
But you hit nail on head – playing WVU won’t put us in NC, but it could knock us out. Playing FAU gives us less of a chance of getting hurt because we do have a less likely shot of lsosing
And this, I 100% agree with.
It is not, however, fact.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going back to '06 and looking at OOC's
for teams that finished the year with 1 loss or fewer. If So far I’ve looked at Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio State, and Florida. So far Ohio State and Michigan are the only two teams that played a ranked OOC oppenent, both on the road, and both against the #2 team in the country at the time. Other then that, the OOC’s are pretty crappy.
"Nothing like a tight one." -Heather Cox
Okay Monarch
would you like a statistical layout of expected win totals against different schedules of varying degrees of difficulty with some kind of win floor to show which scenario is more likely to result in a record that would warrant a national title shot?
Then talk to cfsuu, I’m not thay smart.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No, because that still wouldn't be a statistical study
It would be a bunch of hypotheticals based on guesses. My only point is this is not fact. It makes sense to me, though, and I agree with the “smart OOC scheduling” concepts.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure there was an article on TN about this a year or two ago
but I can’t find it for the life of me.
So we should continually play a less entertaining schedule year after year...
In hopes that one time we’ll play the statistical odds right and sneak our way into the NC game? And hope that the other team did the same and so that we can actually beat them?
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!!
I look at like this
You can play your bowl game in September, or you can play your bowl game in mid-January.
What are you glorifying with your life?
Actually the statistical odds are playing the tougher schedule and making it in
Champion and number of BCS teams played OOC since 2001
Auburn: 1 (Clemson)
Alabama: 1 (VaTech)
Florida: 1 (FSU)
LSU: 1 (VaTech) – this was their 2 loss year
Florida: 1 (FSU)
Texas: 1 (Ohio State)
USC: 2 (VaTech and ND)
LSU: 0
OSU: 3 (Texas Tech, Washington State, Cincinnati)
Miami: 3 (Penn State, FSU, Washington)
We play one every year...UF why go for any more OOC bcs teams
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
Who said anything about one time
I want an easy schedule to maximize title game appearances. And it ain’t sneaking when you beat UF plus at least 1.5 ACC teams in thr top 25 yearly.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
nitpicking
I’d rather maximize national championship victories. I completely agree that an appearance is the first step. The part I get hung up on is whether or not playing an easier schedule puts us in a better position to win once we are there.
On one hand it may lead to us being a bit healthier but on the other hand we may not be battle tested enough to take advantage of the situation.
by nolesdude on Jan 5, 2012 9:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Boise state has never rolled intp a BCS bowl battle tested
Never stopped them.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 6, 2012 7:38 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
What is Boise's record in BCS games I forget?
Isn’t it 2-0? The never tested extremely healthy Broncos haven’t had any issues with not playing everyone everywhere.
You need to start taking something
You’re straw man’ing all over the place today.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Everytime I mention LSU I get told what an exeption this year is
But the best I’ve heard other people come up with was Florida in 2008. How about someone show me some specific examples of teams losing an “unncessary” OOC game that clearly cost them a shot at the NC?
How about you showing where a tougher OOC schedule benefited the teams playing for a NC?
A wise polish man once said: If you don't look out for #1, you get a hand full of #2
LSU went undefeated against this schedule, so they don't actually count
You guarantee I’ll go undefeated and I schedule the GD New York Football Giants. FSU didn’t play for the title in 97 bc we lost a tough OOC game. UCLA didn’t play in the 98 title game because they lost a tough OOC game. Miami in 2000 didn’t play in a title game because they lost a tough OOC game. ND didn’t play for the title in 93 because they lost to a decent BC team OOC.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Proof:
FSU ‘97 the loss was to UF. I don’t think rivalry games should count. Are you advocating we don’t play the Gators? Would anyone really want that? Notre Dame is independent, everyone the play is OOC. That is much different than FSU’s situation.
As for proof-
2003- Oklahoma and LSU get in over USC. 2007 the 2-loss LSU team. 2008 UF/OU over Texas, Bama, USC and Utah. 2009 Bama/Texas over other one loss teams. All of those years SOS helped those teams advance against other teams with the same record.
UCLA ‘98 and Miami ’00 fit the mold of your argument. But that’s two years out of 13. Neither in the last 11 years.
In 1999 (FSU), 2001 (Miami) 2002 (UM and Ohio St.), 2005 (USC and Texas), 2006 (Ohio St), 2011 (LSU) were near unanimous choices for the NC game. Some played cupcake schedules, not some didn’t.
In 2000 (FSU),
You asked for examples, 97 is an example
Then you disregard others.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Lets start from the begining
1998- UCLA was number 2 and played Miami OOC and killed their chance
2000- Miami loss to Washington kept them out
2001- Colorado lost to Fresno State that probably kept them out
2005- tOSU playing Texas did them no favors they are still most likely on the outside looking in but this was an unneeded loss for them
2006- OU played the Ducks and lost knocking them out of the picture (they probably get in over uf with 1 loss).
2007- VT is playing against tOSU if not for the LSU game.
2008- tOSU is in the mix if they did not play USC hell even Cinci would get mentioned if not for losing to OU jk they still had no shot.
2011-Oregon would be playing against LSU if they did not already have the OOC game. Oregon is now a big enough brand they would have got enough no rematch votes to play.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Of course it is
I can’t know what a bunch of secrutires and sports writers are actually going to do. The person asked for teams that lost a chance because they played a meaningful OOC game instead of a cupcake. I can only talk about teams that lost their chance to be in the conversation at the end of the year. But here are the in fact teams I have no question would be in the NCG
UCLA
Miami
VT
Oregon well 90 percent sure they would be playing this year
I can’t say for sure what would have happened in 06 for example with OU but my feeling is they would have been ahead of uf and Michigan would have got the rematch. But they had no chance because of the OOC game against Oregon.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
He doesn't want to hear it
Therefore he won’t listen.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:06 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Most years it's a clear cut choice of 2 teams to play for the NC
You point the teams that lost out on an opportunity to play because of an OOC conference loss. I’m not disagreeing with you.
But most years, there is multiple undefeated teams or multiple 1 loss teams that are all trying to make a case to be in the BCS. So how is it then determined who gets in and who doesn’t? The polls, which are based on the perceived strength of the team, and computers which to my knowledge use SOS as a determining criteria. My argument that since that is the more likely scenario- FSU making it’s case against other one loss teams, then a stronger OOC would be better since we are in the ACC.
They don't use SOS for one.
And in most years, hell almost all years, they’re are not mulitple undefeated teams. If you are in a BCS conference, and go undefeated, 99 times out of 100, you are in the championship game. The goal is to go undefeated, scheduling the likes of Oklahoma greatly diminishes that possibility. And when deciding between one loss teams, it is usually based on brand, not strength of schedule. I would prefer that voters recognized tough OOC schedules, but the reality is they don’t. The reality is scheduling cupcakes=BCS games.
So how is it then determined who gets in and who doesn’t?
Record and Brand are so far ahead of every other critiera it is not even funny. FSU has a brand were only in the most crazy of years will they be left out all things being equal.
Basically you have to go back to 1984 and BYU to find a year were brand does not win out over everything else (all things being equal).
In terms of all things being equal that means playing in one of the AQ conferences because the drop off is so great between them and the non AQ you might as well be playing a different sport and this is why Boise St rightly gets punished. Or to put it this way out of the 28 teams that have played in the NCG all but 1 are AQ’s in the top 20 in winning percentage all time my defination of brand and that team was Oregon last year who is an up and coming brand.
In all but 1 year there is a clear cut number 1 team and most years there is a clear cut number 2. In the years there is a debate a non brand has yet to get the spot over a brand. This year is the perfect example were Okie St has nearly all of the arguments in their favor better SOS, better wins 2 though 6, the worst team they played is streets ahead of the worst team Bama played. Yet Brand won out. If it was Univerity instead of State at the end of the name its OU playing.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
What about 2003, 2007, and 2008?
All of those years the brands were roughly equal:
2003: One-loss OU and LSU over USCw
2007: two-loss LSU over 2-loss OU, USCw
2008: one-loss OU and UF over Texas, Alabama, and USC
And I disagree that most years there is clear-cut 1 AND 2. That’s why we all hate the BCS!!
So what about those years?
First things first I feel no need to cry over a 1 loss team not getting in and even less over a 2 loss team.
2003- 3 top brands with 1 loss a piece and the computers passed up USCw. The formula changed so that USCw team would be in now. OU was the team that people did not want in if I remember correctly.
2007- KU was the team with real beef that year. That said LSU got in because the 8 things they needed to happen did. They got in over USC because they had the last word for all practicle purposes. This was a year when the timing of the losses mattered and the preception for most of the second half was LSU was the best team.
2008- UF got in because they beat Bama in the SECG and rematchs were frowned upon at the time. OU got in because of the odd ball round robin losses between OU, UT and TT. OU just crushed people in the last half of the year so got the humans to vote for them.
SOS only really mattered in 2003 to keep USCw out in the computers. The other years the voters picked the “hot” brand.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Where did I say anything about censorship?
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
OK maybe the "1984" reference was a little strong...
Can you tell this issue is important to me?
Yes, but as others have said, this issue is not soley about you.
"You can’t live a perfect day until you do something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
— John Wooden
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
by pasadenanole22 on Jan 5, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Charleston Southern needs new visitor locker rooms too.
This past year CSU used the money they received from the pasting they suffered at Doak to re-build the home locker rooms at their stadium. Without WVU on the schedule Florida State would definitely have a “spare ass whipping for sale.”
by Dauntless12 on Jan 5, 2012 2:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Or maybe getting WVU off the schedule puts FSU in the market to purchase a "spare ass whipping."
The analogy confuses me, but whether the Noles are buying an ass to whip, or selling the beating of said ass, getting WVU off the schedule makes sense.
Mean while Clemson players have more money than they have ever had! What a fool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsHMxhDhlfw&list=UU_wsp6_eSkGOSNxNoztYa8g&index=4&feature=plcp
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
by DocHoliday2 on Jan 5, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
BTW.....for anyone wondering
Be sure not to make a comment on Shakin the Southland asking why they didnt storm the field, like they always do. That one simple and innocent poke will get you indefinitley BANNED…….hahaha
BWHAHAHAHA
I can imagine things are a bit touchy over there.
Yeah but an oppentent jab over here....even on here after a loss to the gators
you really think bud would ban them?
Ha, thats just a little too touchy…..almost b!tchy cry baby status.
Usually means they have an inferiority complex
Guy on a Buffalo
by SteadfastNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Folks,
Be courteous to those with dissenting opinions. Use logic, but don’t browbeat people.
What are you glorifying with your life?
by ricobert1 on Jan 5, 2012 4:13 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Which would be much more efficient
Just have one person post their opinion and 7000 others rec’d it.
by Dr.KennethNoisewater on Jan 5, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I second that motion...
Without liberty there would be no justice!
FSU back-2-back state champs!! 52-14
by CashvilleNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
So true the last thing I would think of is antagonizing the Clemson fans
The Seminoles are still America's team
Can there be one with soul so dead whose heart does not leap at the sigh of Renegade and the flaming spear
Looks like this thread is dying
Now what will I do till 5
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:41 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I hope WVU doesn't back out and we play them
I can’t believe some of the comments I’m reading. Many on here were chomping at the bit for FSU to join the SEC earlier in the year, now you are happy for us to dodge WVU? Give me a break!! How you gonna be a big boy program if you don’t play big boy teams? FSU was built by Bowden when FSU was willing to take on anybody anywhere and WE WON quite a few of those.
If you haven’t noticed, the ACC has taken a mighty hit this bowl season. Before the last BCS bowls that were losses by VaTech and Clemson (and how!), the ACC was already ranked below the Big Least by Sagarin. What do you think those two losses are going to do for the conference. Yes, a cupcake on the schedule is good for a season opener. We got Murray State next year, but unfortunately the national perception of the ACC is that it is a conference full of cupcakes already.
Bring on WVU!! It would be good for us and the conference to put a whuppin on them. After all, the damned game will be in our stadium. If we can’t beat them in our own stadium, we probably won’t belong in a BCS game.
by 54Mercury on Jan 5, 2012 4:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This isn't about belonging
Or some other sportswriter driven narrative or bravado. This is game theory plain and simple. Most of the competitors for the good bowl spots we want understand that you don’t need to play these games, so if we continue to play them, we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage. It’s a prisoner’s dilemma and our compatriots have defected. We should do the same.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I’ll be willing to do something for the ACC’s sake when they will stop trying to bone us. Until then, F Clemson and F the ACC.
My photo appeared in the Nightlife photo collage of the FSView for six weeks in-a-row. That’s who I am.
by RollNole5 on Jan 5, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ask EJ Manual
after the Oklahoma game this year if he agrees.
The next time we play UF 1,092 days will have passed since they have been able to hold our jock strap.
Maybe we should get more excited about the FSU tennis team
. . . if we are too afraid that someone might get hurt if we play a tough opponent. Good grief man!! This is football for chrissakes, not tiddly-winks. I can’t believe some of the comments. Some of you guys should just go watch tennis, or maybe golf is your game. This is freaking football!!!
Do you just not understand?
Its not that we are afraid of playing anyone. Its that it is not smart to ruin your chances at a National Championship. If you win congrats it did nothing to help your schedule because you were going undefeated without that game. If you lose, enjoy playing December bowl games.
I here you and understand exactly what you are saying, but . . . .
I just don’t buy it. I am not saying every OOC game should be against a top 10 team, but I am saying that having a big OOC game on the schedule is not something you should fear, if you have a good team. It is something you should embrace as an opportunity to enhance your program’s reputation and get on the big stage. Its why kids come to play at a school like FSU. Its not to play Charleston Southern. Its how FSU built its reputation in the first place. Its a reputation that has slipped in the last decade. Many consider FSU over-hyped now because we never live up to our preseason expectations lately. WVU would be an opportunity for FSU to make a statement win. Not someone we should run away from like a bunch of weenies. Get a grip! I understand what you are saying. You are simply wrong. FSU would not have the program it has today if it had not taken the risk of playing programs that were much more established and had national reputations if it had the attitude I hear so many of you espousing now. FSU was everyone’s homecoming game candidate before the school built its program by taking some risks and winning.
Again, we already have a big time OOC game.
It’s UF. Every year. It is beyond stupid too add to that schedule if your goal is to win national championships, win your conference, and go to BCS games. If you want a more entertaining schedule, that’s fine. But expect more 9-3 type seasons than not.
by seminoles44 on Jan 5, 2012 11:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
FSU has historically had more than one OOC big game
Before joing the ACC, FSU regularly played folks like Michigan, LSU, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Ohio State, USC, and Auburn. Since joining the conference we have played OOC games against Notre Dame, USC, Alabama, and Texas A&M. Guess what? We’ve won nearly all of those as well as beating some other OOC teams where at least people recognized their names, like Kansas, Louisville, South Carolina, Brigham Young, Colorado, Syracuse, Iowa State, and Southern Miss. And every year we also played Florida and Miami. If you are a good team, you don’t need to shy away from playing stalwart opposition and feel as though you need to play St. Mary’s Sisters of the Poor for more than one game a year. FSU didn’t before and had the longest continuous record of top 5 poll finishes in the history of college football. Ya’ll are acting like you are scared to play tough teams, because in the ACC you aren’t going to get more than one or two tough teams a year.
Are you insinuating
that kids would rather come to FSU to play Oklahoma in September and then a Decemeber bowl over going to Alabama and playing nobody out of conference then playing in a BCS bowl?
It is something you should embrace as an opportunity to enhance your program’s reputation and get on the big stage. Its why kids come to play at a school like FSU.Because scheduling games you can lose means thats the path you are wanting to play.
And Yes absolutely, FSU built its reputation by playing anyone anywhere
FSU would not have the program it has today if it had not taken the risk of playing programs that were much more establishedThat was a different time. A) FSU wasn’t a national brand so exposure was pivotal 2) The idea of play any one anywhere is when you need to boost your national brand. We already have one. D) The era of college football evolved. Thats why Bobby is no longer our coach. Maybe you’d rather be UCLA scheduling all these awesome teams and then petitioning to go to a bowl with a losing record.
I mean I really enjoy seeing this
. Its a reputation that has slipped in the last decade.Now ask yourself who helped create these schedules the past decade that helped advance our slide…Bobby and his crony AD Spetman. Did beating Bama help FSU get a BCS bid or a NC bid, no. Did beating Colorado help FSU, no. Did beating syracuse help, no. Did beating BYU help, kinda only till the very next week when stupid scheduling eliminated that temporary rise in hype. Did
So in reality its not that we are scared to play tough teams, we’d just rather play those tough teams for games that actually mean something. In todays college football era, not the one you know when kids on our team weren’t born yet, Championships are determined by who is undefeated at the end of the year… I personally would rather watch my team blow out 4 pasties of a school and then win a NC because we got there then watch my team barely win 3/4 intense games and then be playing in December games.
We will simply just have to agree that I like my team winning a National Championship and you like your team watching my team do it.
Nuts . . .
I don’t know if you have looked at the past schedules and results, but we did both when we were truly good. We beat the pants (or was that pasties — what’s on your mind there? ) off those teams during the regular season and won big-boy bowl games too, including two national championships. Spetman had nothing to do with our schedules until very recently. Hell, he just got here a couple of years ago. Did you just start following the team yesterday? Don’t be a weanie. If you can’t beat them during the regular season, you probably won’t get the chance to in the bowl season and maybe don’t deserve it. And, I’m not talking about loading up with all our OOC against tough teams, but wanting to dodge WVU is not smart. They have a bigger risk in playing us than we do. And USF?? Come on. Laying an egg against them was the single major broken straw that resulted in Bobby being shown the door. They are not a big time program by any stretch of the imagination. They literally just starting playing 1A football yesterday.
Even Clemson, who has a history of playing cupcakes in the OOC games, scheduled Auburn the past two years and they have to play South Carolina too, just like we have to play UF. I hate to remind all of us of this, but Clemson just played in a BCS bowl.
We will simply just have to agree that I like my team winning a National Championship and you like your team watching my team do it.
You seem clear in that you don’t understand that your schedule dictates whether you get to play in the NC more times then not and so I hope you enjoyed this season. Scheduling OU cause EJ to get injured causing FSU to drop two more consective games.. Remove OU and you win that game, maybe lose to Clemson, but beat Wake and we are 10-2 even with a lose to UVA. Simple scheduling matters.
Clemson just played in a BCS bowl
because they won the ACC, Wake Forest went to a BCS game too. Which ACC team got an at large bid? Who did they schedule?
I understand what your saying, . . . . I'm not sure you do though
Wake Forest did not play in a BCS bowl game. Only Clemson and Va Tech played in BCS bowl games. Everyone else played in what was left over. And, you will not get to play in a national championship game if you do not demonstrate during the season that you are deserving of being there. To your point, look at all the other 11-1 teams that didn’t play in the national championship game this year. Alabama is there despite not even winning its division because its one loss was to the #1 team in the country: LSU.
Friendly reminder..
that the orange bowl is a BCS bowl and check the recap
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=270020154
So yea, winner of the ACC automatically goes to a BCS bowl as it currently stands. Another friendly reminder, the premise of this conversation is the best way to win championships and get to premier bowls. Heres Bud’s comment
and are plenty enough schedule strength for Florida State to make a BCS bowl as an at-large bid, should the ’Noles fail to win the ACC.
Alabama is there because they scheduled smart and didn’t play a bunch of losable games. They played 1 OOC game at Penn State and then 3 cupcakes. Win Shares would explain that if they played your style OOC that they would have most likely ended up with 1 loss OOC and combine that with the 1 loss in conference and I most certainly guarantee you a 10-2 Bama team isn’t playing for a NC.
Using who Bama lost to as a reason for tough scheduling is ironic though. They lost in conference not out of conference. Therefore they had no control over that game. The games they had control over they played Kent State, North Texas, Penn State, and Georgia Southern. If you were going to try to make your point you should have really considered using the clear outlier to normal scheduling and shown the LSU played WVU and Oregon. Yet they also played Northwestern St and Western Kentucky.
Great, but we have all the leverage here.
WVU and the BIG !@ should have to Show Us Da $$$ to buy their way out, especially since we now have to hire someone to come take a beating..
Big name opponents put fannies in the seats
Another thing to consider is filling the stadium, which hasn’t been a regular occurence lately. What was the best attended game this year? Oklahoma. What will be the best attended game next year? If its not UF, it will most likely be WVU, if they stay on the schedule, which I hope they do. The fans do not turn out to see ULM, CSU, or a team like Murray State. Hell they don’t turn out for some of our ACC opponents, see Maryland for example. Until the Oklahoma game this year, the last time there was over 82,000 in attendance at a game was all the way back in 2001, and that’s counting the UF games since then.
We make more money from 50k at a cupcake two years in a row
than we do from any home and home.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
Huh . . ?
Is this about money or having a football program that is actually good and capable of playing anyone in the country? I thought the idea was to win a NC? How you gonna do that if you are never willing to play the contenders? So you play the cupcakes and the semi-cupcakes of the ACC. Then when you get to a BCS game and have to play someone good you end up laying an egg like Clemson. If you want to be a big boy, you gotta play the big boys and beat them.
I assumed that since you referenced attendance you wanted us to make money from the gate earnings at a sell out
If you just want a full stadium and money isn’t the concern, I’ve got a solution for you. We just give the tickets away. Because money coming into the program is the only real reason to care a great deal about our attendance numbers to the extent that we let it dictate how we handle other parts of the program (like scheduling)
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
There have been years when even giving away tickets wouldn't have produced a full house.
But I agree with your premise.
Clemson didn't lay an egg because they played cupcakes
Same for VT (though they didnt really lay an egg). They laid eggs because they aren’t as good as the teams they played. No amount of tough games throughout the season would have changed that.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Also unless you are inside the program you don't know why they play bowl games
Some teams treat it as a reward for their players first
Some an extra spring practice
Some to give a nice send off to seniors and a show case for them
The point being winning is not always the 1st or 2nd priority for a team in a bowl.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
tOSU played than 2 Texas and than 2 Michigan and layed an egg.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
You're letting logic get in the way of things sportswriters tell us about football
You gotta be a tough grass eating warrior to succeed.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
My point is . . .
The ACC schedule we play is not a terribly tough schedule. If you were to use the Sagarin Index as a relative indicator, the only top 20 team we played this year was Oklahoma. Not a single ACC team is in the top 20. Not one. Do we want to win a national championship? Well if you are not able to beat a top 20 team on your home field, or theirs for that matter, what makes you think you will win in a national championship game if you really haven’t been tested during the season? Its more likely that if you get there, you get your butt whipped and embarrassed. Is it more about just getting to a BCS game, or do we really want to be good enough to win it too?
by 54Mercury on Jan 5, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Your arguement has less to do with scheduling and more to do with the strength of FSU
It doesn’t matter if you play them or not. It matters how good you are. Whether you play a top 20 team or not has little to no bearing on whether you can beat that top 20 team.
I would also like to note that FSU always plays UF OOC and more often than not they’ll fit the bill of a top 20 team. Also, there’s a good chance FSU will play a top 20 team if it goes to the ACC Championship game.
In today BCS world schedule strength doesnt matter.
Using your example of FSU’s 2011 schedule, if FSU finished the regular season 12-0, and won the the ACC Title game vs. VT, they would be in the national title game.
Even if you take off OU and replace them with Akron this year, if FSU goes undefeated they’ll be in the NC game. There simply is no benefit to adding a team like WVU on the schedule. Beating them is not a newsworthy win and losing to them will be a MASSIVE blow to any NC hopes. There are no such things in today College Football world as a “bad win” or “good loss”. Its not College Basketball.
So in your view its just more about getting to a BCS game
. . . than being good, because the ACC sends their champion to a BCS bowl every year and since we won the national championship back in ‘99, the ACC champion has won exactly 1 BCS game and that was VaTech beating Cincinnati in not exactly a national championship game. Big Whoop!! Right now, playing the ACC schedule is not exactly a worthy test to prove you are worthy of playing for a national championship. Not one ACC conference champion has played for a national championship since we played for it back in 1999. Since that time the ACC hasn’t done anything but slip in the national perception of how good the conference plays football. There is no guarantee that the ACC conference champion will play in the national championship game even if they go 12-0, if there is another 12-0 BCS team available and even another 11-1 team from a more highly regarded football conference. The only guarantee is that they will play in a BCS bowl.
by 54Mercury on Jan 5, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not about being worthy.
It’s about getting there. This isn’t FSU back in 1980. We are established. We are a big boy program. There is nothing left to prove. Go undefeated, play in the championship game. It’s that simple. Scheduling cupcakes optimizes your chances of going undefeated, and hence optimizes FSU’s chances of being in the national championship game. The perceived strength of the ACC will not be a hindrance to FSU if they go undefeated. FSU will have beaten UF, around 1-3 ranked teams throughout the regular season, and then normally a top 20 team in the ACCCG. That is plenty. That will get you into the championship game.
I disagree
Unfortunately, our conference strength is a factor cause that’s who we play. You can’t beat a bunch of Murray State’s, Charleston Southerns, and some of OUR puny conference brethern and expect to be taken seriously as a national title contender. FSU can’t live off its past forever. We haven’t won the ACC title since 2005. In the meantime, the ACC just went 2-7 in post-season bowl games. Sad but true. The ACC is down and it needs to win some significant OOC games to change the perception. We are one of the best bets to do that and should not be dodging, or hoping the other team dodges us, just so we don’t have to play a tough OOC opponent.
by 54Mercury on Jan 5, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FSU already plays a tough OOC opponent.
UF is about as tough as it comes most years.
I think this is an honest brain fart by many people on this subject.
We play UF every year, so people forget that we DO schedule a tough OOC opponent. In fact, we schedule what is one of the top 3-5 premier programs in CFB every single year OOC.
The point of many on this board is that we don’t need to do a second one.
Most years you are right
Certainly wasn’t the case this year.
Why not it has worked for Boise
They play maybe 2 teams a year that are in the top 45 in the nation while 6ish in the bottom 20 and they are in the conversation. Sure a lot more has to fall right for them but they don’t have anywhere close to the brand value of FSU. Brand so is far ahead of SOS in voters mind its the equvilant of the chewing gum and walking problem facing this country.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Boise takes risks
Every year they play at least one big OOC game. This year it was Georgia at Georgia and guess what? They beat them. Year before last they took the measure of Virginia Tech. That’s how Boise has made its reputation. They did it the same way FSU did it 30 years ago. I would also argue that Boise’s regular schedule isn’t much different than playing in the mighty ACC.
If you really think Boise's conference slate
Is anywhere near as challenging as the ACC, then you sir, are are incredibly misinformed.
by seminoles44 on Jan 5, 2012 11:10 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Am I?
Just to play devil’s advocate . . . The Mountain West Conference has as many teams in the BCS top 25 as does the ACC. That would be 2. Look at Boise State’s schedule and tell me you honestly think their schedule is that much easier than a typical ACC schedule. They opened the season at Georgia to boot.
The MWC is crap
They have 2 to 3 teams at the top and than the drop off is to the bottom third in D1. There are more than a couple teams in the MWC that would not be favored to win the HS playoffs in Florida, Texas, Ohio, PA, CA, or GA. The ACC does not have a team anywhere close to as bad as the worst few MWC teams. The middle of the ACC is so far ahead of the middle of the MWC its not even worth discussing.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
BoiseFSU takes risks
Every year they play at least one big OOC game. This year it was GeorgiaFlorida at GeorgiaBen Hill and guess what? They beat them. Year before last they took the measure of Virginia TechFlorida. That’s not how Boise FSU has made its reputation. FSU played on the road as a no name.
and please
I would also argue that Boise’s regular schedule isn’t much different than playing in the mighty ACC.
Side by Side F/+ rankings
FSU Boise
ULM 95 UGA 14
CS Toledo 30
OU 9 Tulsa 40
Clemson 24 Nevada 66
Wake 63 Fresno St 88
Duke 72 Colorado St 105
Maryland 96 Air Force 80
NC State 68 UNLV 116
BC 67 TCU 15
Miami 34 San Diego St 69
UVA 57 Wyoming 101
Florida 39 New Mexico 120
FSU average team played 56.72 Boise’s average team played 70.3 Given that there are 120 total teams in FBS Boise average team played was ranked 10 spots below average and FSU played an average of 3 spots above the average. Thats just raw averages for a really really down year for OU compared to preseason and UF’s worst season in a decade. You can’t easily state that in a normal year both those would have been high where as TCU is gonna top out near where they did most years. Then add that TCU no longer plays in the same conference as Boise and substitute a 80+ instead of TCU. Please Boise’s schedule is a cake walk and FSU would likely be 11-1 against is as well. What do you think, think FSU would be in a BCS game at 11-1?
I am sorry but this is just silly
If the ACC champ goes 13-0 and there is 1 or less other undefeated AQ teams there is a 100 percent chance they are playing for the title. There is 0 chance that a 1 loss team jumps them. If the ACC champ is FSU, Miami, or Va Tech there is some how even more than 100 percent chance.
Really the only way an undefeated FSU is not in the title game is something crazy like USC, Michigan, Bama, and Texas all went undefeated in the same year.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
With the way everyone is scheduling now
I’m kinda waiting for that to happen. Almost did 2-3 years ago.
Looks like they'll sneak in a +1 format before it happens now
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
If it were possible I'd love to wager that with you
The 12-0 winner of the the ACC WILL ALWAYS…and I repeat…WILL ALWAYS play in the NC over a team that is 11-1. The ACC’s bowl record is irrelevant to what were discussing. Public perception is not as important as simply keeping a zero in your loss column. A BCS conference champion has never gone undefeated and lost out of an NC game berth to a team with 1 loss.
If Ok State simply beats Iowa State they would’ve been in the NC game and not Alabama. Again, strength of schedule and perceived conference strength doesn’t really matter much in today’s CFB world. At 11-1 losing to LSU, Bama has the best loss possible (to the number 1 team), yet, as I mentioned, if ISU wins an ugly 13-10 game vs. ISU they are in.
In my view, I just want wins…..good ones, bad ones, ugly ones…..whatever. What I dont want are losses of ANY sort.
So so this
As stupid as most of the voters are they are still smart enough to know that AQ conferences are closer to each other than than not in terms of talent etc etc. They really know for example that the SEC has some great teams at the top some good ones in the middle and a few just horriable ones much like most conferences. That the real gap is between the AQ and non AQ. I see more stories from “fans” than I do from professionals about how the MWC is the real deal and should get an AQ spot because they know its the top 2 teams and a bunch of teams that would be underdogs in the big states HS playoffs.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Auburn what?
What does Auburn prove? They were not passed over by a one loss team. The teams that played in the NCG were 1 and 2 the whole year and went undefeated. While Auburn is a brand name they are closer to the second tier than they are at the OU and USC level.
WPNoleJ said and I agree 100 percent with an ACC or any AQ for that matter (possible exception of the new Big East) if they go undefeated will never be passed by a 1 loss team. This rule has never even came close to being violated.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Big name opponents
also can bring losses, as OU proved this year. I want wins, and championships. We win ACC or even national championships the issue of putting butts in the seats takes care of itself.
"The helmet doesn't make you, you make the helmet"- Jimbo Fisher
Formerly known as MattChampNole12
by Matt Champion on Jan 6, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
WVU, what a bunch of pussies.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jan 5, 2012 4:59 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Exactly! . . . .
And we don’t want to be a bunch of pussies by quietly hoping they bail on the game. Bring ’em on! At least we have a team that knows how to play defense, unlike those pussies, ’er Tigers, they played last night. Maybe by next year those young O linemen will be ready to play and our offense actually starts to show up too.
What does that make Clemson?
FSU back-2-back state champs!! 52-14
by CashvilleNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so disappointed in the ACC this bowl season.
Major suck from everyone except NC State. What were we 2-7?
FSU back-2-back state champs!! 52-14
by CashvilleNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Dynamite drop in, Monty!
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Why you dont play anyone anywhere at anytime
The voters are dumb. They punish loses severely no matter how close and under what circumstances nearly all the time. FSU droped what 8 spots after losing to OU in week 3? A close game were the game looked to be number 1 v number 5. OSU dropped like 4 losing on the road on the day of a campus tragedy in overtime because of a missed FG.
Now if you win you move up only based on how many teams ahead of you lost most of the time. The default for voters is a win so anything other than this is bad and there is no good.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
by TheJim on Jan 5, 2012 5:12 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Is playing a tough schedule good?
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
by FrankDNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Downfall of the SB Droid App
Can’t open links in individual conments.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 5, 2012 5:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
West Virginia is scared... lol
no matter the Big 12 expansion. That game won’t be as nearly as tough for us as it will be for West Virginia going up against a Top-3 defense (at Doak) for the 1st real game of the season. I do agree that playing tough schedules aren’t awarded anymore and that all we need to do is just win the games on your schedule, but I really just want to knock West Virginia off their high horse from that pathetic ACC showing that Clemson gave.
I'm with you.
This WVU team will probably be ranked in the top 10 or 15 next year and they just finished this year truly embarrassing our conference champion. An ACC team needs to take them down a peg. We are the best bet to do that and I believe we can.
Injuries
Any updates on rhodes knee, Reid’s head/neck, and Manuel’s shoulder (surgery or no surgery?)
by YeahCumon on Jan 5, 2012 8:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll go on record again
and you can disagree but FSU’s competition is NOT good enough to get an at-large bid all things being equal amongst #2’s in major conferences. If USC loses the Pac-12 championsip to Oregon or ou loses to Texas in the Big 12 (RRS), or Alabama loses to uf for the SEC or vice-versa, FSU is looking in UNLESS it wins the ACC.
I’m pretty dissatisfied with low expectations in Tally. The standards are not being held high which means the product is left for chance. I am viewing lots of excitement about losing marquee games when people playing for the National Championship are scheduling marquee games AND playing tougher conference games. I know the expectations are not focused on championships but BCS games when I think major programs are looking past that. I just dont see other teams looking at what if scenarios for “if we lose the conference championship”.
What?
Not trying to be mean, but I couldn’t really follow that. But if you are satin FSU couldn’t get an at large bid without scheduling 2 marquee non conference games, that is just plain wrong. For proof, look no further than VA tech who just made it a an at large. And Vtech isn’t in the same league as FSU when it comes to brand recognition and tv viewership.
by seminoles44 on Jan 5, 2012 10:32 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
to clarify
1. I think the expectations shouldn’t be considering what-ifs around a BCS at large
2. FSU needs to win the ACC
3. we should be thinking National Championships
4. 2 marquee non conference games is probably what the ACC needs to overcome the perception of poor inter-league play/ competition
5. FSU fans are not excited about patsies on the schedule
by WarHorn79 on Jan 5, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
we are thinking national championships.
Scheduling cupcakes greatly increases your odds of running the table and making the national championship. If FSU goes undefeated, they are in the national championship barring some absurd scenario where 5 marquee programs end up undefeated.
by seminoles44 on Jan 5, 2012 11:12 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
or 4 marquees with 1 loss and one undefeated team
because in this case that happens more often FSU
Bud last I checked
Winning the ACC got VTech a BCS bowl spot, not going 7-2 in their last nine. Who was the ACC At-Large and what was their record and story? Yes being facetious but we both know 1 more win by ND during the year would have had them taking an at-large spot over anyone from the ACC. In light of VTechs loss, even more ACC credibility is gone as most view them as the power in the ACC post expansion.
Conference preception is meaningless really
Until the SEC starting crying about it no one really cared about it 10 years ago. At this point there are only 2 conferences that will ever get respect for strength at least enough in the media to make any kind of real difference in voter perception that is the SEC and Big 10. The Pac and Big 12 have had several years this last decade were they were most likely the strongest top to bottom or had more top end depth and no one cared. If FSU, Va Tech, Miami, or Clemson wins a NC it take cares of all the problems.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
lol I was typing so fast Clemson Winning the ACC got Vtech
was cut off. Anyway, I am not convinced FSU is a lock for an at-large where I would focus on that.
I cannot believe I just had to "Z" through 300+ comments b/c people do not understand the current system and how to game it to you and your program's advantage.
Study Schedule smarter, not harder. Forgive me if I am being remiss but we need a hardcore, permanent written ‘FAQ about scheduling’ on the site to refer people to.
by NoleSir on Jan 6, 2012 2:05 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Losing WVU could cost FSU big $$$
I don’t know if you happened to see the Democrat today, but Spetman was quoted as saying having to replace WVU could cost FSU about $1 million. That would be a net loss of $650k. So for those of you who want FSU to schedule cupcakes that no one wants to see, there goes one of the arguments I’ve been seeing posted here. No one wants to see FSU play pushovers that no one has heard of. Witness the attendance for ULM and CSU games this year. And, if you can’t sell-out that stadium, which has only been done once since 2001, Oklahoma, you are losing potential revenue. Not putting a product on the field that people want to see is not being smart. That is not only applicable to our team, but also the level of competition that we are playing. FSU is not near a couple of major metro areas like UF. People have to travel further to see FSU games and we are playing in the weakest BCS conference, thanks to our ACC partner teams.
Lose 650K in having to pay some joke team to get pants
Making 13 million by getting to BCS game. Yep I’ll take it.
You will get to a BCS game only by . . .
1) Winning your conference, like Clemson did, or
2) Demonstrating during the season that you are deserving of being in a BCS game.
The reason that there was so much uproar about Va Tech being in the Sugar Bowl (a BCS bowl, BTW), was because this was an exception. Va Tech did not demonstrate during the year that they deserved it. They either got lucky or there was some well applied influence somewhere that said take Va Tech or else. Don’t count on that happening anytime again soon. Why do you think there was so much angst about this game? Because Boise and K State were ranked higher and didn’t get selected. If you don’t win your conference, you better have demonstrated during the regular season that you were deserving of being in a BCS game or the national championship game. Alabama did by having their only loss to the #1 team in the country, even if they didn’t even win their own conference division. This is also why the ACC has never had a second team selected for a BCS game until this year. Unfortunately, they probably won’t get a second one again any time soon.
"Deserving to be in a BCS game"?
No. At-large BCS bids are given out for two things
Ticket sales by that fanbase
TV interest in that team.
It’s why there are always two Big Ten teams in the BCS, despite the conference usually being 4th, just ahead of the ACC. Virginia Tech got the second bid because they were more interesting than Boise or Kansas State to the Sugar Bowl organizers. The ACC doesn’t often get multiple bids because there are really only 3-4 teams in the conference that would merit it without being forcibly chosen, FSU/VT/Clemson/Miami, the last primarily because of TV interest.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
That whole game was a classic example of this...
Michigan and Michigan St had the exact same record.. Michigan St beat Michigan. Michigan goes to BCS game and Michigan St doesn’t. So tell me, which team demonstrated during the season they were worthy of deserving a BCS bid. The team that finished 7-1 in conference and 10-2 overall or the team that finished 6-2 in conference and 10-2 overall with a loss to the team that finished 7-1. Please and its about who “deserves it”.
Couldn’t have said this better
At-large BCS bids are given out for two things
Ticket sales by that fanbase
TV interest in that team.
So, does FSU make $650k for the 2013 home game that replaces the game at West Virginia?
I think that’s pretty likely. If it’s about money, FSU should go for 7-8 home games a year. You don’t get that by playing home and homes with good teams. 65k in consecutive seasons vs. ULM is more $ than 82k vs. Oklahoma one year and 0k at Oklahoma the next year.
You know what really hurts attendance? Losing games.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
This is negotiating talk
These comments are all about getting as much of a buy out as possible and looking good in the process. This year FSU loses some money sure but because there will not be a return visit to WVU in the end this will be a lot more money for FSU. Ending the home and home means you add one home game. So even in the worst case that the rent a win brings in only 50k fans and WVU would be a sell out that is still almost 20k more fans over the 2 games at Doak.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
I'm hesitant to respond to you for fear of getting banned or warned, but let's just say you're argument fails to see all the monetary factors at work here
By your math it will cost us 650k to get out of playing WVU because we have to pay another team $1 million+ to come in and lose. Let’s assume that WVU draws better than Patsy state for an early season game, yes that is a net financial lose. However, next year, rather than incurring the cost to travel to a road game (one of SIX we would play that season) simply pay Cupcake Tech to come in, take a beating and more than recoup the amount of money lost this season.
Shot a Gator in Jean Shorts just to watch him die.
by AMFKNole on Jan 6, 2012 1:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Money aside for a second....
Let’s look at it strictly from WVU’s point of view. It’s early in the season and they will be facing one of the most formidable defenses in College football. That Offense relies on precision and timing. They want to win a national chamionship, and at least go to a BCS bowl game!
Playing the Nole early, diminishes those “Expectations” to a mere dream.
Now ask yourself. Why do you think WVU really “Wants” to remove FSU from next years schedule?There has to be a real reason.
If I were WVU, I would be the one looking for the cupcakes, and hoping to get lucky in a bowl game. Like Marshall, and James Madison.
When I played football, I was most successful when I played inside my opponants head.
Don't underestimate the Big East effect
The first part is WVU wants out now. Because this game was part of the ACC/Big East settlement this might be playing a big factor on why they want out of the game. There could be langauge in this contract that is different from most normal OOC contracts that makes the Big East a benificary in some way to this game and order to jump they need to get out.
The second thing is they are jumping to the Big 12 which was arguably the deepest conference this year at the top while the Big East is made up of no one really at the top but a bunch of average teams. WVU probably expects to lose anywhere from 2 to 4 games in conference in the Big 12 the first year so why add another loss OOC that just makes you look bad. IF they are thinking national championship next year in the Big 12 they are delusional. Without knowing where the games are being played they right off the bat will be underdogs to the two OK schools. Probably a dog to Texas and will not be a huge favorite over KState or TCU.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
Part of it has to be simple math, too
9 BCS games in the Big XII, they have a yearly H&H contract through 2017 with Maryland, who technically counts as a BCS team, and a “rivalry” home game with Marshall. Including FSU as opposed to James Madison who is their other game that was scheduled, is an insane schedule. They’ve got to dump one to play in the Big XII, and FSU is the obvious choice.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Gino Smith and his roomate have already decided who is going to win the Heisman!!!
Smith’s high school and college catching teammate, Stedman Bailey, sees is buddy as boosting perhaps more than one candidacy.
“This is a big opportunity for him, for me and our team,” Bailey said. "We’re not sure what’s going on with the conference realignment, if we’re going to go to the Big 12 or not, but winning this will be very important for us, especially if we do go into the Big 12. It will give us a lot of hype for next year.
“As far as Geno and myself, for us to do a good job in this game, it might pretty much put him on top for the Heisman race next year, and for myself, the Biletnikoff Award. That’s something I want to try and accomplish, winning that.”
SO THAT BEG’S THE QUESTION…..How exactly can these clown win anything if they have to face FSU’s Defense on week #2 of there schedule?
Bye bye FSU…..
FYI…I am going to make sure that EVERY voter …Knows about This!
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