Is Miami's future FSU's past?
by TimScribble on Jan 9, 2012 11:13 AM EST
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PrintHere at Tomahawkan Nation and other sites, there has been a lot of discussion lately on the Miami Hurricanes recruiting class. Going by Rivals, they are currently sitting at #6 in the team rankings, three spots ahead of the Seminoles. Miami, as of right now, has 30 commtis for the 2012 class. Of these 30 recruits, 21 of them are 3 stars or lower.
The argument from the Miami side of the discussion is that "stars do not matter" and "Golden can coach up anyone" etc. So what should Miami be expecting in the upcoming years? I think a good starting place could be the 2009 FSU season. A season which saw the Seminoles finish with a 7-6 record, barely sending Bobby Bowden off into the sunset as a winner, one last time.
The 2009 season was one that FSU fans would love to forget. That year, the Florida State offense fielded zero 5 star recruits, had four 3 star recruits and eight 3 star recruits. On defense, the Noles had two 5 star recruits (White and Bradham), six 4 star recruits and three 3 star recruits or less.
If you recall this season, it was awful to watch. Whether it was the squeaker over powerhouse Jacksonville St, the South Florida meltdown or the finale in the Swamp in which CBS referred to the Noles as a JV team, Florida State was outplayed in almost every game. The defense allowed teams to score at will, the Boston College game especially sticks out when they could not stop the game winning drive.
I'll give this to Miami, I believe they have better LB and DE coaches than FSU had in this time. But in the end, Stars do Matter. You can only coach up players so much before Talent starts to win out. In the last two years, Miami has taken 35 Three star recruits or less out of 49 recruits. That is over 70% of the recruits. In the 2006 - 2007 season, FSU had 23 Three star recruits or less out of 51 recruits. Roughly 45% of the combined classes.
The Hurricanes are picking up some nice players in this recruiting cycle, Duke Johnson and Ereck Flowers are good recurits. But make no mistake, Miami is positioning itself to be a middle of the pack ACC team.
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No doubt
I mean…they were barely .500 with a team full of upperclassmen that were once the #1 recruiting class(granted all of those recruits didn’t stay or whatever) AND the rest of the good players that would have been seniors this year are leaving for the NFL…
Hope they schedule well for the next decade….oh wait…they don’t have the money to do that….
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Hope they schedule well for the next decade….oh wait…they don’t have the money to do that….
Hilarious! Well done.
I just hope they don’t try and get out of our game with them. Though with conference expansion, that might just be their (or ours – give or take) ticket out. It’s at Miami and currently scheduled for September 7th, but hopefully we’ll know in the spring when the SEC AD’s all meet.
Editor at Alligator Army.
With all due respect,
a Gator fan can’t really say anything about that.
And remember, I said “With all due respect.”
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 9, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Which of course means you can say anything you want. ;-)
And it was either drop FSU or Miami due to the SEC making us play 8 conference games. I’m happy with how it turned out.
Editor at Alligator Army.
I don't know why you'd drop the Miami game next year, though.
It fits all the criteria for an OOC road game for y’all. A cupcake in the state of Florida. When was the last time y’all left the state for an OOC game, again?
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 9, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I thought.
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Fun Fact.
After Florida dropped Miami from the schedule, Miami cemented the Seminole War Canoe (the trophy the two teams pass back and forth as they win or lose accordingly) into their on campus sports hall of fame. After the last UM loss to Florida the Canes refused to return the canoe to Gainesville. Bitter much?
by FSU Pope on Jan 10, 2012 11:15 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
The looming probation won't help either.
Even if Golden coaches up those 3 stars, depth will be a major problem.
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Formerly known as Florida State Jay.
Well...
I definitely think Miami is getting beaten pretty handily when it comes to elite recruits, but I think some of us FSU fans are overblowing the Miami issues a bit. Their coaching is probably a good bit better than what FSU dealt with during much of the “Lost Decade” (in that the head coach is not coasting and the assistants are competent). A comparison to what FSU was doing in the waning days of the Bowden regime isn’t really all that relevant. They are also recruiting well enough to compete in the Coastal Division (no one in that division is really recruiting any better). Definitely falling behind FSU and UF, and do not appear to be recruiting national championship-level talent, but not exactly falling apart at the seams, either.
They'll survive - and that's about it. The ACCCG is going to be a distant goal for them. At best I can see them playing for it in 2015.
Then again, Grobe won the ACC with all 3 stars, in a really weak year. And Coastal doesn’t seem to be improving too dramatically
Wrote on this today http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2012/1/9/2694219/miami-football-recruiting-national-signing-day-2012
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I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
They really have stepped up their recruiting coverage. I was surprised.
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A step up from the floor is still just the bottom step.
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 9, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hurricanes Fan
If Miami is setting itself up to be a “middle of the pack ACC team,” why are you guys worried?I mean you guys are way beyond us in every aspect: recruiting, athletics, DEFENSE, and have your own stadium, but you guys continue to talk about how Miami “not going to get far with 3* star kids…” or “The looming probation won’t help either.” for example. “Miami, as of right now, has 30 commtis for the 2012 class. Of these 30 recruits, 21 of them are 3 stars or lower.” Incorrect. There are 31 recruits, and 19 2/3 (Scout, ESPN, 247Sports) are 3* or lower. Of those “fillers” as you guys like to call them Rayshawn Jenkins,Earl Moore, Danny Isidora, D’Mauri Jones, and Jacoby Briscoe had offers from either Alabama, Michigan, FSU, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan Sate, and Arkansas. Also, from Barton Simmons: I saw Jacoby Briscoe in the SuperDome for the state championship. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I would’ve believed it if you told me that he was a 5-stars with offers from everyone in the country.
“The 2009 season was one that FSU fans would love to forget. That year, the Florida State offense fielded zero 5 star recruits, had four 3 star recruits and eight 3 star recruits. On defense, the Noles had two 5 star recruits (White and Bradham), six 4 star recruits and three 3 star recruits or less.”
I’m sorry, that was funny. Our offense easily trumps yours. Seantrel, Mike James, Jermaine Johnson are rated 3* or higher next year. The offensive line, WR imo, TE, and even RB are light years ahead of what FSU had in 09. On defense, Jalen Grimble, Chickillo, Curtis Porter, Telemaque, Ray Ray, and Buchanan are the only 3* or higher. LB, DE, and S are better than 09’. Stop trying to put FSU as an example of excellence with quotes like “In the 2006 – 2007 season, FSU had 23 Three star recruits or less out of 51 recruits” because you guys aren’t even living up to your standards with your various 4 and 5* star players.
We are only worried
that our second biggest rival will slip into irrelevance. Not because we respect you or anything, but because it makes the ACC look that much worse.
The offensive line, WR imo, TE, and even RB are light years ahead of what FSU had in 09. On defense, Jalen Grimble, Chickillo, Curtis Porter, Telemaque, Ray Ray, and Buchanan are the only 3* or higher. LB, DE, and S are better than 09’.
I’d say you’re probably right overall, but just barely. Guess what though, this article was not saying that our 2009 roster was better than your 2012 will be. It’s pretty much saying that that year was a big bust because we didn’t have and didn’t successfully recruit a lot of big name players, and your 2012 season looks like it’s gonna go the the same way.
You guys aren’t even living up to your standards with your various 4 and 5* star players.
Once again, you are correct. But GUESS WHAT PUTA?? At least we’ve got them and are clearly on the upswing. Miami is about to crumble under the power of the NCAA sanctions and you will probably jump onto the LSU bandwagon.
Enjoy the bottom step cane.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
It makes the ACC look worse?
Are you sure? Because you guys haven’t even won the ACC since 05’. We haven’t won at all, I know. “It’s pretty much saying that that year was a big bust because we didn’t have and didn’t successfully recruit a lot of big name players, and your 2012 season looks like it’s gonna go the the same way.” They’re not the biggest names, but there are some big names in our class even with sanctions looming. Besides the offense, every unit should be fine except when we have to rotate DL -_ -
What’s the point of having a car if you can’t drive it? None. So your “At least we’ve got them and are clearly on the upswing” is funny. Miami has 4 and 5* stars too so lets not get carried away. I like LSU but I’m no bandwagoner. Yachts and hookers reportedly happened prior to 08’. Shapiro is not even talking to the NCAA because he can’t come up with actual proof. Troll on
"should be fine"
If that is the goal of Miami, then they’ll most likely reach it. I for one won’t ever be content with just “fine” recruiting from Florida State. But besides all of this, no sanctions have been dropped yet. When the NCAA declares a bunch of players ineligeable and slaps on a two year bowl ban, those big players will jump ship to a place where they can make a name for themselves, which is the exact same thing that happened at SMU. We should easily win the ACC this year and get the orange bowl, which is why our big time recruits are coming in and won’t be wasted like yours.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 10:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't talking about recruiting
Talking about the team as a whole this year. Why can’t the big players stay and the “filler” players go? Reverse-logic huh? Many, at least 95% of fans on TN said that you guys would win the ACC easily and go to the Orange Bowl, and what happened? I’ll take sending our big time recruits to the NFL (most turn out awesome) than filling these recruits’ heads with dreams that their talent will be used at the “best school in the ACC.”
Because "filler" players can't go...
The non-star players never transfer, only stars who want to better themselves (Russel Wilson). This is a fact. What happened to us this season? Our starting quarterback was injured in all four games we lost, started only two, and didn’t play the entire game in any of them. We had a 190 pound freshman leading the offense for the majority of all four. The amount of ignorance coming from your posts is amazing.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 11:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So, you're happy with a mediocre team as long as you send players to the league.
It’s actually not a good thing to have elite athletes that don’t get coached up until they leave your program.
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
The more UM fans who support a good/very good but never great team the longer it will likely continue. So thank you and keep it up.
In the meantime, if we tally up the wins and continue to steal top talent away, you’ll see your NFL drafting numbers drop significantly in the mid-term future.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
I certainly am not happy with the effort of UM
But I can’t do anything about it. I’ve also read on here that the next guy should be able to step up. You guys have tallied up the wins(19 in the last 2 yrs) and are getting the top talent(#6 in 10’, #1 in 11’, and top 5 now)in fact you guys have been doing it for 3-6 years and UM players are still getting drafted at higher numbers than FSU. Just my two cents.
I would expect Miami area athletes to ALWAYS get drafted in the NFL.
It’s an inexact science. We do know that NFL scouts are in love with measurables, and that area has consistently fit the NFL eye test.
by FSUActuary on Jan 10, 2012 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What's your 1st-round pick streak at now? 0?
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the new stat they dont shut up about is
how many weeks in a row has a UM player scored a TD
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
I meant our direct head to head games.
We’ve had Jimbo as HC for only two years. I call mulligan on any talent we had during Bowden’s lost decade. Most of them were shady recruits or ill fitting pieces due to lazy recruiting.
But in the end, effort has little to do with poor program funding and rosters mostly filled with, at best, good talent. If you think about it as having 85 available spots to get your team the talent it needs to compete with whatever 85 players the other team has, you go for what gives you the best probability of success. Thats not filling rosters with 3*s and a dusting of 4*s By nature of having a roster riddled with scrubs you’re less likely to draft as many as the competition. If you draft a ton of NFL talent but are losing, that speaks to coaching. Too bad Miami cant afford top notch coaching.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
Yea man, I'm not worried.
Bring me some popcorn, I’m excited to watch what happens at UM. Part of me is really, really hoping that they try to cheat their way out of this. God, wouldn’t that be something?
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by STAquinasNole on Jan 9, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
7-6?
Nothing a yacht trip and a few hookers can’t fix.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 7:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's because you are now the UGLIEST chick I ever slept with......and I'm being judged unfairly.
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Stars are as significant as....
the hair in my nether regions. They are only used by a “Medium”, for their own ends, to sucker in 3rd parties to pay for their consulting services.
The agencies that slap the stars on these hapless victims, are the “Voo-Doo” High Priests, and Preistess of modern day Football B.S.!!! Ever notice if committed to UA early..The rating is inflated by ESPN? hhmmm Also If if committed early to Army AA Rival gives them a higher rating?..hhmmm
Almost every 4, and 5 star rated Player comes from Florida, California, Texas, Oh, and sometimes PA…..Unless it is a high skill position such as QB, or Wide reciever. Geographic stardust maybe?
The Guys that do the scouting…Are some of the LAZIEST, SCUMSUCKING, BOTTOM-DWELLING pieces of trash that are in existance.imo.
Got that LUGZ…..You arrogant swine.
It is little wonder that coaches cannot believe their ears when these UnderPit so-called “All-Americans”, throw a trantrum when they get told by player’s who are Juniors that they have to actually earn a spot on the roster.
As long as Miami recruits close to HOME, they will be dangerous! I don’t care if they have zero stars! Rival, Scout, and ESPN, are all about the Cash!
I will always respect the “U”!…..I just wan’t to beat them. EVERY single time!
Z
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 10:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A FSU fan says Stars are insignificant ?
Finally, someone who gets it on this site. I could be the best player in the state of Florida, but if scouts don’t take the time to evaluate then you would never know. Stars are decided by two things: 1.Playing ability- makes a difference, but you’d be surprised how many kids with little to no talent are ranked 4*>
2. Offers by schools- A kid with offers from Tulane, Kansas, FAU, and Indiana etc. who is explosive and works his a** off would most likely be 3*< while a kid with offers from Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Florida, Florida State etc. who makes a play here and there would be 3*>
“As long as Miami recruits close to HOME, they will be dangerous! I don’t care if they have zero stars! Rival, Scout, and ESPN, are all about the Cash!”
I can’t *tear
You are both
HORRIBLY wrong. Stars have won the SEC 6 straight National Championships.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 9, 2012 11:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stars AND coaching them (including getting them into school, keeping them eligible, etc.). I don’t think anybody is going to assemble enough stars to win on that alone right now.
I agree whole heartedly, but at the same time.....
no one has ever won without them either.
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
FL/GA/AL talent is actually VERY well evaluated. Once you leave the southeast and go Midwest, evaluation differs.
Anyone who says stars doesn’t matter isn’t paying attention. They do. Schools don’t recruit based on stars, but you can be sure that all 3* or better will be evaluated by multiple schools. Then the offers matter – there’s a reason schools like Bama and FSU offer certain 3*s.
But don’t act like Golden can bring in every unranked or 2* kid from Dade and win even the coastal division. Believe it or not, every 2* isn’t Ed reed, and rivals/scout/etc have improved a lot since then. Ed reed wouldn’t be a 2* in 2011.
Boise junior college doesn’t have to follow the admission rules of the BCS conferences. They get in a ton of kids that don’t have a chance getting in to FSU and definitely not Miami.
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I'm talking about big boy football.
How did Utah’s forray into the BCS conference pan out?
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Oh boy...here comes the Ed Reed argument again.
Using an exception to base your argument isn’t a very good argument. FSU has Xavier Rhodes who is one of the best DBs in college football who started out as a 3 star WR. But for every Ed Reed, theres 50 nobodies who turn out just as their star rating predicted.
by zewhitedevil on Jan 10, 2012 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
Another recruiting season, another opportunity to educate. It will never stop. There will always be more.
You are more than the choices that you've made, You are more than the sum of your past mistakes, you are more than the problems you create, you are more, You've been remade - Tenth Avenue North
Hard to educate this..........
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Miami's ONLY mistake was giving into NCAA pressure on Scholarships.
Those educations are so precious, BECAUSE so many of the spots go to the local kids REGARDLESS of those precious star ratings.
Each one of these scholarships that go to kids from Overtown and all the other tough area’s actually, then, become what is known as a “Force multiplier”, on ignorance and despair. Over time since the Schnellenberger era, these places have appreciated nicely. Can the same be said about where you live?
Education is the key to economic development. Miami, if it goes back towards Howards formula, they will succeed beyond anyone’s wildest expectations.
The NCAA has no right to take awa y SCHOLARSHIPS!….Let Ceaser have his pound of flesh. He can have the profits from a bowl game……Those minds must be educated.
If the NCAA wants to witness Real crimes and Misdemeaners, they need only go to State College Pa!…..Or…..South Bend Ind!….Stay the frack out of Fla.
That being said……I want to beat them 32-31……:)…..wide right….Little brother….:)
I don't have the time to get into a back and forth with you, I'll leave that to others. However,
Miami’s ONLY mistake was giving into NCAA pressure on Scholarships.
I have no idea what you mean by this or how UM gave into NCAA pressure on scholy’s.
Each one of these scholarships that go to kids from Overtown and all the other tough area’s actually, then, become what is known as a "Force multiplier", on ignorance and despair. Over time since the Schnellenberger era, these places have appreciated nicely. Can the same be said about where you live?
One, two, or even 10 scholarships do absolutely nothing for the unfortunate areas that are Overtown, Liberty City, and even some areas of Coconut Grove. To say that those areas “have appreciated nicely” is plain wrong. These areas are mirred in unemployment and the poverty level is so bad that giving a few football players scholarships will do nothing for the community, although they might help the player and his family. These areas have been harder hit than other predominately white areas since the economic meltdown and crime has also risen, especially black on black crimes. Now some of the sections surrounding these areas, such as Wynwood, the Design District, and some areas east of I-95 and moreso Biscayne Blvd around Downtown have improved in the last 20 years, but that has nothing to do with UM or any other school offering scholys to the disadvantaged youths of the inner city areas mentioned above.
If the NCAA wants to witness Real crimes and Misdemeaners, they need only go to State College Pa!…..Or…..South Bend Ind!….Stay the frack out of Fla.
This is just a silly statement since the NCAA has no jurisdiction over what went on in PSU, and I am not aware of any forthcoming LOI’s heading towards South Bend. But I do have a feeling the hammer is going to drop, and drop as hard as it did at USC, on the scUM program, and deservedly so. And the hammer dropping will not have any impact on the hardships faced by the kids and their families living in Overtown or Liberty City or Coconut Grove.
>------::----::------->Spearing 'em and Scalping 'em like it's 1999
I'm not so sure this Jimbo fella is the right man for the job.
thank you for saving me the time
Each one of these scholarships that go to kids from Overtown and all the other tough area’s actually, then, become what is known as a “Force multiplier”, on ignorance and despair. Over time since the Schnellenberger era, these places have appreciated nicely. Can the same be said about where you live?One, two, or even 10 scholarships do absolutely nothing for the unfortunate areas that are Overtown, Liberty City, and even some areas of Coconut Grove. To say that those areas "have appreciated nicely" is plain wrong. These areas are mired in unemployment and the poverty level is so bad that giving a few football players scholarships will do nothing for the community, although they might help the player and his family. These areas have been harder hit than other predominately white areas since the economic meltdown and crime has also risen, especially black on black crimes. Now some of the sections surrounding these areas, such as Wynwood, the Design District, and some areas east of I-95 and moreso Biscayne Blvd around Downtown have improved in the last 20 years, but that has nothing to do with UM or any other school offering scholys to the disadvantaged youths of the inner city areas mentioned above.
"However, I say, let UM burn." -onebarrelrum
Each one of these scholarships that go to kids from Overtown and all the other tough area’s actually, then, become what is known as a "Force multiplier", on ignorance and despair. Over time since the Schnellenberger era, these places have appreciated nicely. Can the same be said about where you live?
I don’t have to say the same about where I live. Where I live and grew up is one of the poorest counties in one of the poorest states. We still don’t have a high crime rate. So save me the violins for the poor people of the ghettos and trailer parks (I grew up in a trailer park).
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 1:29 PM EST reply actions
Thanks to UM its better than it was.
It will be better in the future. Take away those scoly’s…They take away hope.
You do realize most people from low income neighborhhods that go to college leave the old neighborhood behind, right.
Plus, from a CFB perspective I could give a $h!t less about the value of Miami area neighborhoods.
Most Miami fans have a bead case of SARS. Slap Ass Retarded Syndrome.
by Nole Resurrected on Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
This is way off track
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